Jonathan Greg, Pat Irwin & Bob Holmes - SUSS Interview
Are you originally from NYC? When did you first begin to fall in love with music and was this something that was relevant around your household growing up? Do you have any siblings? What ultimately inspired you to pursue a life and career in music?
JG: Born and raised, till I was 14, when we moved to Poughkeepsie. I moved back in ’81, and have lived here since. I loved music from the start, first my parents’ 78s, and LPs, then radio. We didn’t get TV till I was 12, so seeing “A Hard Days’ Night” at the movies was the clincher. Mom played the piano quite well, but our apartment could accommodate either a dining room table, or a piano, and the table won, so I never had the access that would have given me a good formal base. I was passionate about drums, but it never really clicked, and it wasn’t till I was 13, or 14 that guitar came into the picture, and from that moment on I was a goner. No. Lots of solitary time, especially once we got to Poughkeepsie, where I didn’t know anyone. Because that’s where it lives. Once I got going, I progressed quickly, and I realized I had something worth pursuing. Plus nothing ever came close to the feeling I got from it.
Pat: No, I grew up in the Midwest. I moved to NYC in the late 70’s. I grew up with music, I grew up with rock n’ roll. I’ll never forget seeing the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1964. I was nine years old. Music was relevant in my household - my dad loved Benny Goodman, and I started to play clarinet around the same time I saw the Beatles. I must have been 8, or 9, and had very formal, and rigorous lessons with the bass clarinetist in the Cleveland Symphony. I still play the clarinet. That was also around the time I saw Goldfinger, the James Bond movie. That soundtrack killed me, and introduced me to the world of music, and movies which I’m a part of to this day. Yes, I have two brothers. Both are younger. Music inspired me. I didn’t have a choice.
Bob: I grew up in Columbus, OH, and moved to RI in the 70’s where I went to the Rhode Island School of Design, and stayed there for 20 years, which is where I originally met JG. I always loved music, but I was always “the artist” in the family, and my brother Barc was “the musician”. Of course, when I went to college, I started a bluegrass band (something that I knew nothing about) in an oddball attempt to go against the prevailing winds of early punk, as RISD’s Talking Heads were just taking off at the time. The bluegrass band (Blind Gary and the Foggy Vision Boys), together with my brother who moved to Providence, morphed into Rubber Rodeo, a new wave country act, and as they say the rest was history. Yes, my brother Barc, one year younger, mentioned above. Unlike my other two bandmates, I think I just fell into it. I believe it was in no small part a reactionary measure against what was expected of me. Having gone to an all-boys prep school in OH, I was expected to go to an Ivy League School, but to my parents’ dismay, I chose an art school instead. Just as they were getting used to the idea of me being a “professional artist” (whatever that means), I decided to start a rock band. It took them about 10 years to get used to that idea, at which time I pivoted back to a career in design, which I stuck with for about 25 years until SUSS.
Did you participate in any groups, or projects prior to SUSS?
JG: After graduating from college, I started playing original music in other people’s bands, and in 1979 I joined the Mundanes, who became quite successful in New England. That band included John Linnell, who later started They Might Be Giants. When the Mundanes broke up I started my own group as a songwriter, and guitarist, Jonathan Gregg and the Lonesome Debonaires, who put out three indie CDs, and got some great press, including a rave in Rolling Stone. When that band broke up after 15 years I got into pedal steel full time, gigging, and touring with various outfits, especially The Doc Marshalls (later Runner of the Woods). From 2013 to 2017 I returned to songwriter/guitarist mode in a band called the Linemen that I co-led with Kevin Johnson, out of Baltimore; we made one great album that sank like a stone when our manager vanished. Now, I do some session work and give lessons. Apart from SUSS I also lead an eclectic cover band called The Combine, also featuring J. Walter Hawkes on trombone, which plays in the NYC area.
Pat: I’ve been at this for quite a while, and have been playing in bands for as long as I can remember. Bands I had a part in after I moved to New York were 8 Eyed Spy, Raybeats, and The B-52s. I also write music for film and t.v. and most recently scored Dexter: New Blood. Showtime recently released the soundtrack, and it’s available on all of the streaming services. I composed scores for the cartoon shows, Rocko’s Modern Life, Pepper Ann, SpongeBob SquarePants, and many others. I love that stuff. The music from Rocko’s Modern Life was recently released on Republic Records, and is available on all of the usual streaming services. I’ve got a collaboration going with Cynthia Sley called “Command V”. Cynthia is the singer from one of my favorite bands, the Bush Tetras. We’ve released one record on Mush Records and have another one in the works. I’ve also got a band called The PI Power Trio with Sasha Dobson on drums, and vocals, and Daria Grace on bass, and vocals. This band lets me put on my rock n’ roll hat. Sasha is currently on the road with Nora Jones, and she also plays with Nora in their band, Puss ’N Boots. Daria Grace has a wonderful band with J. Walter Hawkes called The Pre-War Ponies. J. Walter Hawkes, and I released a record a couple of years ago of mostly guitar, trombone, and electronics, called “Wide Open Sky”.
Bob: As I mentioned above, my music career has been a bit unpredictable. I started Rubber Rodeo out of college with Gary Leib, one of the founding members of SUSS. We were on Mercury/Polygram Records, and were awarded the first Grammy nomination for music video back in the early ‘80s (we lost to Bowie). After several records, I started producing records with my partner Tony Maserati for acts like David Bowie, k.d. lang, Nils Lofgren, and others. During this period, Tony, and I also created a digital marketing agency to promote the artists that we were producing, and that became Sudden Industries, which became my life for close to 30 years. Due to a chance set of circumstances (see below), SUSS happened, and now that’s my focus, though I am also part of another ambient psychedelic trio called Numun, who have put out records on Shimmy Disc and a new one coming out on People Teeth Records. And I spend a lot of time producing my monthly podcast series “Ambient Country.”
How did you initially meet your bandmates and what was that chemistry like between everyone early on?
JG: I met Bob around 1980 when we were both in Providence-based bands, me in the Mundanes and Bob in Rubber Rodeo. We did shows together, and shared rides down to NYC, and stayed in touch socially when we all moved to NYC. Around 2009 we started playing bluegrass together in a band that lasted almost 12 years. I knew Gary from Rubber Rodeo, and the Debonaires had worked with William Garrett, so it was a familiar thing when Bob pitched the idea of SUSS. I didn’t know Pat that well yet, but once we all got together we saw very quickly that there was something special going on that didn’t need much discussion.
Pat: I first met Bob through a mutual friend and neighbor, William Garrett, who was in the five-piece version of SUSS that recorded “Ghost Box”. William, Bob, and Gary knew each other when Bob was in Rubber Rodeo. I met Jonathan through Bob, if I’ve got it right, they were playing in a bluegrass band together. I remember the five of us getting together in my studio for the first time. Jonathan, and I plugged in, started to play, and it was magical. The very first thing we recorded ended up being called “Wichita” which is on the “Ghost Box” record. I recorded most of what you hear on “Ghost Box” in my studio. Bob took the tracks, and made some edits and loops. The late Gary Leib, who played with Bob in Rubber Rodeo, did his thing, so did Jonathan, and William mixed it. We put it all together and it was SUSS.
Bob: My bandmates have pretty much covered it, except for one small aspect. For many years (in the 2010’s), Gary, Will, Pat, and I used to regularly get together for lunch to escape work, and to talk about our wives, kids, mutual friends, movies, and music. By that time Gary, Will, and I had known each other for over 30 years, so we had a lot of history. Pat brought something new to the mix, and out of those conversations, the idea of SUSS was born. The only missing element was Jonathan, but as he was in the bluegrass band with me, it wasn’t much of a stretch.
Tell me about writing and recording the group’s 2018 debut entitled “Ghost Box”. What was the overall process and approach to this album and how did singing with E.V.P Recordings come about? Finding a home on Northern Spy, the band would go on to release albums such as “High Line” and “Promise”. Tell me about these albums and the progression of the band growing into itself with each new release.
JG: Once “Ghost Box” came out stuff started happening really fast, and they got on board quickly. I didn’t know much about them, to be honest, but it’s worked out well. There has never been a specific blueprint; tracks work their way through the band, and everyone adds their ideas. Will Garrett’s mix of the first couple records had its own quality; “Promise” I think was a darker turn. Each release has its own vibe, but it’s something that comes about in the doing, not so much the planning. I try to approach each new piece with as few preconceptions as possible.
Pat: I first became aware of Northern Spy through a friend of my son. Northern Spy is my kind of label, they understand our music, and where we come from. They had done something with Rhys Chatham, and had released records by Arto Lindsay, John Lurie, and Marc Ribot, who are all peers of mine, and came up in NYC at the same time as I. Northern Spy seemed like a comfortable fit. ”High Line” was mostly recorded in my studio, and was done with the original five members of the band. William did a wonderful job of mixing on that record, but got too busy to continue, and we worked on the next record, “Promise”, as a four piece. Again, the record was recorded, and mixed at my studio in Long Island City, Queens. The inspiration for a song can come from anywhere, and any place. Bob, Gary, Jonathan, and I, all brought in basic sketches that evolved into finished songs. There’s an improvisational process at work in SUSS that ebbs, and flows with the material. I remember Gary had the vibe for “No Man’s Land” in his imagination before we recorded a note.
I think it started with a conversation Gary, and I had about the Fripp, and Eno record, “Evening Star”. Jonathan brought in the changes for Echo Lake, and it went to a completely different place. Bob, and I recorded Drift together, and Gary, and Jonathan added their parts later. A couple of the songs developed like that. Sadly, Gary Leib passed away before we completed the self-titled double record, SUSS, but his presence is felt. That record evolved during the Covid lockdown. The double record is a collection of four EPs that Adam Downey, from Northern Spy, encouraged us to release as a fully realized double album. The first EP was based on an imaginary road trip through the South West which was really Bob’s idea. The second side starts off with “Winter Was Hard”, which I played on piano, and a funky little electronic device called a Buddha Box. Bob really pushed it to be a SUSS song. “Heat Haze” was another visual image that Gary had that evolved into a song. The record ends with “Across The Horizon”, and it doesn’t get more clearer than that.
Bob: I was happily introduced to them by Pat, and it has been a great marriage. I think SUSS has released more albums w/NS than any other act on their label. Pat has covered the evolution quite well. In the beginning, I just started with two words “ambient” and “country” and the concept of “Ennio meets Eno”. A bit reductive I realize, but we had to start somewhere. Each of our concepts of what that creative brief meant were completely different, but the Venn diagram of where our creativity met was what ended up being SUSS. In my mind, we don’t tell the music where we want to go, the music lets us know where it wants to take us. We don’t set out to make a road soundtrack, or a dark album, or a pastoral album, but once some tracks have been recorded, the tracks tell us where we’re headed, and we just follow along.
Jumping ahead to the group’s most recent effort entitled “Birds and Beasts,” that’s set for release in late June. Tell me about the process and approach to bringing this record to life and what the ultimate vision was for this body of work. What has changed about the band over the years? Is there anything else you would like to further share with the readers?
JG: There are fewer moving parts now that we’re a trio, and the sound is at the same time sparser, and larger, perhaps statelier. The sources of inspiration have evolved; the process of execution is not that different, but time has provided a broader horizon. We’re grateful that they feel the same excitement we do as we discover our progress together.
Pat: We’re now a three-piece band. Bob had the title, “Birds and Beasts”, and once we had that in place the record started to take shape. The world is out of balance. Things are moving in impossible directions, and there are painful divisions. There are birds, and there are beasts. Thanks for giving SUSS a spin.
Bob: As stated before, when we started on these tracks, we had no idea where they would end up. As my bandmates have mentioned, we were aware that the new tracks sounded more like a three-piece unit, which meant that each of us decided to make our musical statements with more economy, and with more impact. For some reason, in doing that, the recordings felt more “human”, “fragile”, “powerful”, and we’re probably warmer than anything we’d done before. We weren’t afraid of having melody, and weren’t afraid of having longer tracks. When Pat submitted two starter tracks, one called “Beast Bits” and the second called “Bird Bits” the writing was on the wall that we were finally going to populate the arid soundscapes that we had become so well-known for in past recordings. We feel very lucky, and grateful to be making this type of music at this point in our careers, and lives and I hope that shows in the music we create.
