Angelo Noce Santoro/Jan Reynders - Cosmic Dealer Interview
Cosmic Dealer were a Dutch band that formed in '68 until their official break up in '73. The group had elements of strong and heavy psych in their music, and played with a force that made them undeniably one of the more talented groups to come out of the Netherlands around that time. 'Crystalization' is a solid bronze fist to the chin as it comes out of its cage, and into your ears, and mind! I had a wonderful time speaking with Angelo, and Jan about their time in the band, the memories of recording their lone record, and the impact they made both on, and off the stage. Enjoy!
Are you originally from the Netherlands? When did you first begin playing music? Have you always played bass, or were there other instruments that interested you as well? Can you tell me what growing up was like?
Angelo: Yes originally Dutch born, my father came from Italy, Paola, Calabria my mother was Dutch but they were not married, that's why I was Dutch. When I was 10 years old my parents got married and I automatically became Italian 40 years later I became Dutch again. I got my first Spanish guitar when I turned 12 and later a Kawai S1 but I only really started playing when I was 17 I had bought a Dutch bass Egmond and a 15 inch Echolette Bass-speaker and a Dynacord Bass king and later a Hagstrom Viking bass with the Fender style headstock.
That was in 1966/1967 I played in 2 local bands songs like "I Feel Good" James Brown and a song "Last Train To Zwindrecht City" with a long bass solo on my knees. And my brother played music before me 1958/1960 - The Viking Rockers, 1960/1964 The Moving Strings, and 1965/1971 - The Zipps. So there was always music in the house. The bands I played in myself were - Cosmic Dealer - Palmeira - Oriental Guitars - Cozile - Noble Band - Afrodisia - Angelo Noce Santoro - Solo and now 54 years a musician. But I only started playing guitar later when I started making my own songs and always recorded Sound on Sound with a Revox recorder so played bass and guitar and percussion on my own recordings from 1975/1976 I guess? and since 1979 I have released 10 Instrumental solo albums. In all styles Latin Jazz, Surf, Oriental, Acid Jazz.
When, and where did you first meet your band mates? How did you guys decide on 'Cosmic Dealer' for the name of the band? What inspired the band as a collective at that time? What was the chemistry of the group off, and on the stage?
Angelo: I already knew 2 guys, Jan Reynders & Bas Van Der Pol because my brother played with them for a while. The band is called Hawks 66, and I used to go to their rehearsals. And later when Floating Fudge Including, Cosmic Dealer was doing rehearsals in my village I went to watch regularly. There were four of them first. The name then was "The Floating Fudge including The Cosmic Dealer". They used vacuum cleaners and gas masks and painted faces on stage. Bas van de Pol was the bass player at the time. But sometimes at rehearsal they asked if I wanted to play bass. And Bas van de Pol was an old style bass player and I was a new style bass player. And then the idea was born that I would play bass and Bas Van Der Pol would play guitar. And I bought a Fender Telecaster and traded it for his 1962 Fender Precision bass. And then the name was also shortened to The Cosmic Dealer. So I've always been the bass player in Cosmic Dealer but not in Floating Fudge. And also one of the few bass players who played wah-wah.
"They used vacuum cleaners and gas masks and painted faces on stage"
The group formed in the late 60s and released 'Crystallization' in '72. Can you tell me about the process of recording that record? What was the experience like for you working in the studio? How did the deal with Negram come about? Can you explain some detail about each song featured on the LP?
Angelo: First of all, that date is incorrect. Crystalization was released in 1971. The date 1972 has been added by a Greek who had put the full album on youtube. I also wrote to him that that date is incorrect and it must be 1971. And asked to change that date. But I think he is afraid that his viewership will disappear but that is not, so you can change the date without losing a hit. About how it went our manager was in contact with producer Eddy Owens and invited him to attend a rehearsal. He came and probably liked it. We then went into a demo studio with him in 1970 and recorded the song "The Scene" according to some better, rougher version than on the record. I don't remember, that recording is nowhere to be found. Eddy took the recording to the Negram boss. And we immediately got a contract. Then a new version was recorded in early 1971 and released as a single with b-side 'Child of the Golden Sun'. The recordings and mixing were done in 6 hours. The single was released and the same day we were told you can make an LP. Negram was happy with the result.
All recordings are Drums, Bass, rhythm guitar & lead guitar recorded at once in the Bovema Studio. All vocals were added later. We recorded on 8 tracks and for the 2nd single "Head in the Clouds" a shorter guitar solo had to be added, which is the only guitar overdub of the instruments with the violins in the song we had nothing to do with. That was an idea of the producer. And with the mix we were not allowed in the control room, we had to wait in the studio. Only the engineer and producer were there. When the mix was finished we were only allowed to listen.
Between the late 60s and the release in '72, what were the band's activities in the few years leading up to the album? Who shot the photo for the cover, as well as created the awesome font?
Angelo: Still '71 in '72 the band split up for a Year and came back in1973 with 2 new members and made 6 new demos die only 3 in January and 3 in May 2 songs from the new demos Child of Tomorrow & Sinners Confession 2 songs from the new '73 demos Child of Tomorrow & Sinners Confession were released later on the CD version at Pseudonym records and only in 2012. I contacted World in Sound Records and is all 6 demos + 2 older demos from '71 on the LP and CD "Cosmic Dealer - Child of Tomorrow" issued in Germany.
What were the live performances like with the band? Did you guys tour in support of the LP? Are there any performances, or times with the band that stand out to you the most? What was your bass rig like as far as equipment goes?
Angelo: We did a Live concert for National Dutch TV VPRO. Campus 24 min. Live and also for VPRO-Radio another concert in the afternoon. See the Beeldbank link for pictures above. Cosmic Dealer played quite a lot of performances across the country. We've also had gigs in France, but that was before the record deal I think. One detail was that the person who ran off the Bookings with the money from the performances, we never heard from him again and was nowhere to be found. We only heard that he was heavily indebted to taxes. My bass rig at the time was a full tube 100 watt London City amp type Marshall clone and a 4x12 Marshall box and later an extra Orange 4x12 box and of course my 1962 Fender Precision Bass number L12008 and a Schaller wah-wah. And later the Foldedhorn Acoustic 361 box with 18inch Gerwin Vega speaker in the older model Acoustic 150 watt amp which was from the band "Sweet Smoke" Just A Poke.
What's the experience been like for you to have an underground following of the band after so many years? While I was doing research I wanted to see if anyone was selling the record on Discogs, and someone was at nearly 1,200 dollars! What do you think about that? How was the record received when it was first released? How many did Negram initially press?
Angelo: Of course that is a nice experience, especially because I used to be a fanatic record collector myself when I had about 1,100 LPs in my collection. If something like that happens with your own music, that's great. But we didn't notice it at first. Only when a white label pressing appeared. Then the alarm bells went off. That white label record is an Italian bootleg taken from the Original LP. It has Negram and the same record number. But Negram had nothing to do with this. Nobody knows who did it. But I don't care, they can boot all our records for me. Later the CD version was also bootlegged in Russia. In total there are now 14 different versions of Crystallization including the green and turquoise double albums. I looked at Discogs yesterday, there was one for 1599 euros and one for 999 euros and a few years ago one was sold at 1300 dollars. When the LP came out we got good reviews in music magazines but sales were a bit disappointing. That only started later. That's why those bootlegs!! We don't know exactly how much Negram pressed? I heard someone say 2500 but if that's true I don't know?
You guys split up in '71 after the release of 'Crystallization', why was that if you don't mind my asking? You then reformed the following year in '73 for a bit, what was going on with the band and its members during this time? What was life like after the band? Did you continue to pursue music after the split up, or did you decide to hang it up all together? Do you recall what the other members went on to do?
Angelo: Frans Poots our singer was going to stop. I then temporarily started playing with another band "Snowflake" Phocas their band leader enticed me with, or I did some recordings in their studio with 2 guys Jody Purpora and Leendert Busch from Tax Free who had split up and we recorded 2 demos sounded very good, but I never heard those recordings after that. I would never see a copy of the tape. But "Snowflake" the singer/bass player had to go into military service and was said to be unable to play anymore. And I was promised to play on their first single right away. But that single never came. I did record a song with them but it was never released. But strangely enough, the 2 people who were at the rapture died a long time ago.
And the people who weren't there claim 40 years later that I couldn't have played it because the singer who is also a bass player sings on the recording, they assume that he will have done the bass too, but he was joined the army when the bass was recorded and the vocals were only sung later in his free weekend. Forty years later, he couldn't remember not playing it. So he and their roady (who wasn't even their roady at the time) weren't even there when the bass was recorded, but they just assume I'm not right now because they hear the other bassist singing, so i got the job done and others get the credits. But at the performances of Snowflake, the singer/bass player was also present every time and he sang everything and I bass half of the songs en he bass the other half. I didn't like that and after a few months I left. And not much later the restart of Cosmic Dealer started.
Angelo: Yes it is a difficult time now, last year in the first lockdown I recorded a number of new songs on my own 12 pieces only guitar bass and drums at three I made a video is on youtube I will add the links to it. But there is not much you can do for the rest. There is a third corona wave here and all shops, cafes and restaurants are closed and there is an evening clock you are not allowed to go out after 9 pm. I haven't been able to play with my Psychedelic instrumental trio "COZILE" since the beginning of 2020. We have to wait for better times.
https://youtu.be/BbWPZToMcH4 - ANS-Black Clouds
https://youtu.be/rB4FsROtljY - ANS-Flying
https://youtu.be/_w87rEWPIiw - ANS-Karmania
https://youtu.be/HsaQLR2t6bg - Cozile Live
Is there anything else you would like to further share with the readers?
Angelo: Yes after Cosmic Dealer together with a friend founded a band "Palmeira" that played Brazilian music. 1979 that was the first band in Holland to play that kind of music. We started as a trio when Steven Bishop a jazz flutist from Kalamazoo came along. later a singer. I then recorded an LP for ANS.records with my own label with a 4 track Teac recorder 1983 that album has been a collectors Item for years and was reissued in Japan 2007 on CD and 2008 on vinyl by Celeste Records. And in 2015 on CD and vinyl on Pharaway Records from Spain along with my first solo LP from 1979 on CD and LP also on Pharaway records, Angelo Noce Santoro - For you. ANS. records 1979 and nice detail a song from that album is also in a USA TV series. "Fuck, That's Delicious"
Jan Reijnders: Our business - part of playing in a band , was taken over by a team of 2 managers.And we had two (the best.) roadies aboard and we had a well playing, good live band and what often set us apart from other bands were our harmony-vocals.I guess it was our Hawks history ,covering for years Beatles and Hollies ,and in Cosmic Dealer our voices perfectly fitting. Not Always Angelo's thing. He has a more wide taste, latin, funk!!!!! oriental etc. But his bass playing is excellent, even on the songs he didn't like too much hahaha… a P.A. was bought for the band exclusively, always dragging the electro-voice eliminators around where ever we went. One of the managers had connections in the active music business and he knew Eddy Owens, at that time a freelance producer and song writer, successful, but wanting a full contract deal with record company in the Netherlands, Negram. He was invited to one of our rehearsal and he was enthusiast immediately. ‘The Scene' (prog rock song then…) stood out and we were allowed to make a Demo for Negram, and it became our first single c.w. 'Child Of The Golden Sun' as the b-side.
It was a medium success, some Airplay, and some days good Airplay. And the sales were not overwhelming, but Negram saw potential in a second singe “Head in the clouds” (by Adrian Gurvitz of Gun, a personal favorite band), much airplay, even in the lower zone of the charts, but never a big success. But the people knew us by then. WE even had a fan base. Then Eddy came to a gig where we played and told us that Negram would like to record an album with the Cosmic Dealer… Surprisingly, really. But with the band in a sky is the limit mood, of course.
Extra rehearsals followed, often with managers and Ed Owens present. A nice period. Agree and disagreements on songs, amusing. Songs that we as the band were crazy about… were wiped away. And tuning a guitar in the corner of the rehearsal room, and Eddy enthusiastic screams 'what is that you're playing, is that song written by the band/we're gonna put that on the album'. Small changes (FEW) were made, some lyrics were changed, but the band was Always involved.A normal process for a band's first album I think.
In the van. Backline and drums on board and we had some very nice days in the studio where we all learnt a lot. Being a relatively new and YOUNG band, we knew our way with our instruments and the vocals and harmonies. So we were not a difficult band to record Owens told me later. Overdubs, sometimes an extra voice double recorded, or an extra guitar to the already played guitar part. Fun, a playground, and nice to see and hear the producer are being pleased by the ease of our playing. Some details recording the ALBUM TRACKS.
Well over 50 years ago, and I don't remember everything, but some if there is nothing behind the hill one guitar being the 12 string, guitar accompany, a Morideira, a good guitar. I broke a string and though always spare strings in the case, not of the gauge that I broke in the studio. What you hear is an 11 string guitar. The main riff on I had a friend, was played by me (Jan) on the Fender 68 Telecaster of Basa, hard guitar to play but with a bright sound. The first time ever I played that guitar was in the studio on that song. In Crystallization every band member of Cosmic Dealer had his input! I mean the title-tune.
The guitar solo in 'The Scene', was not to my satisfaction, we played that song a few times and Eddy from the control room: "okay guys lets give it a go“. And we did the instrumental part, and the solo is what it is, but while playing I did somethings not the way I really planned it. But I was thinking “I'll do it better the time after this", but Eddy did not agree and he thought that solo was okay. It is okay, but I had a planning in building up the solo, and i had no second chance to do it that way.
'The Fly'... same situation, Bas on lead vocals (only vocals) and he was not satisfied by some voice-bends when hearing the result in the control room. And he wanted to do the vocals again, in a better way. But Eddy went for the go, soul/intensity of a first take... He and Bas even had a little argue about it. What is on the album is the first and only take. Its okay, but Bas had other things in mind… hahaha.
One Night. A joke. Eddy liked our rock and roll playing, just for the fun of it, and sometimes Blue Suede Shoes, Long Tall Sally and Good Golly Miss Molly were played, Bas reaching the Little Richard/Paul McCartney pitch easily and Eddy thought it a part of being Cosmic Dealer. Good Golly Miss Molly was often played on stage. One Night in a short version was chosen. We played originally without stops/breaks after every main guitar riff. Eddy came up with the idea of a break where a sexy girl moan would be fit in. Even the girl was ready for that moan, but Negram did not approve (1971 you know… haha). So on the LP after every riff a two second pause, no moan… 'Head in the clouds'. The violins -orchestration was NOT the idea of the band. In fact I did not like it. But okay, Eddy played us the end result and yeah, well. When you listen carefully you can hear the rhythm / tempo/ pitch difference between the Cosmic Dealer -s electric drum loaded instrumental bottom track with the acoustic violins, miked and the players with headphones, coming a second(?) after the beat only in the end… Illusions. I played it Always at home. A short tune to check if new strings were in tune. Some chords in i , not much of a “song“ though. And I did it it for that reason in the studio and Eddy liked it immediately, “what is that? Is it yours? Can you play that again? Yes and Yes hahaha". It was put on the album as a cool down after Head in the clouds. And ends with the chords that are identical to the chords of the title tune “Crystallization".
The activities leading to the album was playing stages, festivals, bars. Rehearsing and jamming. Sometimes with friends from other bands.Bas coming to the rehearsal room with again new material.The band, together working out those new songs. Sometimes leaving it for what it was… I don't know the photographers name of the album cover. What i do know, 200 pictures were taken in one day, near Beverwijk and Ymuiden in the Northern part of Holland. What ever happened to the rest of that photoshoot.I have no idea.What you call the artwork of the album cover is done by a Negram employee who's job was artistic final touch creating, I guess. Thank you for your kind words concerning the album cover. It has become very recognizable over the years, by the colors and Astrid, the sweet little dog of Bas.
"I don't know the photographers name of the album cover. What i do know, 200 pictures were taken in one day, near Beverwijk and Ymuiden in the Northern part of Holland"
The performances were good, very good ,despite our youth we had a cover experience and discipline, no nerves for big venues, Cosmic Dealer played the album, with some extras, covers of songs that WE liked ourselves. And when playing at festivals, a nice thing is watching the other bands playing. We never specially toured to promote the l.P, but sometimes (via Eddy Owens) we played for free when promoting our album was useful in his mind... We were “known“ in the Netherlands, but never became famous. We never had a big break through. We experienced very much publicity in newspapers, music press, and t.v.
Being an underground band these days with people paying top dollar for our 1971 album is nice and flattering. Even the Italian bootleg version is well priced 70 to 100 dollars or more. The LP is often re released on vinyl in different colors (psychedelic!!!) and on cd and double cd. And good to hear the past without scratches etc. And with addition of (to me) unknown recorded live material. ”Fast“ we performed in one Afternoon in a radio broadcast, we played it two times, and both versions are on the 2012 cd. Really a surprise to me because it is the same instrumental but differently played, and very good taped.
Its our history and we played at our top then at a very young age, and when we played in de Jaarbeurshal in Utrecht (Holland) in 2012 on Youtube part 1, 2 and 3 and after our performance people from Bulgeria and Germany asking to sign the album. And had just bought the new released double cd with extra tracks and picture poster. And those are great moments. People have memories of the time when the Cosmic Dealer was at their record player in Bulgeria. Now ain't that something special?
The Original band was discontinued in 1972 due to lack of a P.A. and no one of the band members then, had the money to buy a P.A. Because of the lack of success the P.A. was withdrawn from the Cosmic Dealer, and there was nothing we could do, because the P. A. was his… In 1973 and 1974 we made a come back with Kees de Blois and Ed Boender both on guitar and vocals. With Angelo and me (Jan) as original members. Again a very good line up, with much creativity, but little reminded of the original 1968-1972 Cosmic Dealer. Good vocals and harmonies again but a huge difference in comparison to the original band. Many reunions followed over the years including the Utrecht and Texel performances in 2012 and 2014.
"People have memories of the time when the Cosmic Dealer was at their record player in Bulgeria. Now ain't that something special"
With Kees de Blois I play again in a senior cover band, playing Dire Straits, Eagles repertoire. Still buying guitars and amps from time to time. Bas died in 1993 and Ad passed away in 2018. Angelo plays with his brother in Cozille, instrumental power surf (haha maybe he won't like my qualification...) Always good contact, with Frans Poots as well, but although Holland is a small country, Frans lives far from Dordrecht, happily married and earning a living with painting high quality beautiful paintings, sometimes expositions with only his work, and selling well. Angelo and me, friends forever and keeping in touch by phone or mail. Especially when one of the two of us spots an interesting guitar, amplifier, and pedal on the internet.
All of the best to you Dakota, stay safe, you and your dear ones, and let the world get out of this surrealistic and frightening situation. With the vaccine of the last weeks there is much hope, thank you for your interest in our Cosmic Dealer and my apologies for my poor English writing. But, I did my best to answer your questions.
Kind Regards,
Jan Reijnders.
Dakota Brown
