Bob Hodges - Czar Interview
Forming from the pop group Tuesday’s Children, Czar were a powerhouse of heavy organ driven leads, original compositions and mighty guitar tone. Though they only released one record in 1970 on Fontana Records, their impact not only on the early 70’s English underground, but the generations to come, have made their music more relevant and celebrated as the years go by. I spoke to Bob Hodges about his early influences, what inspired him to begin playing the keys, and the journey through the handful of outfits he participated in. I decided to do this interview a bit differently than all the other publications on the website due to all the wonderful material Hodges’ submitted to me. This will read more like a story with photos interjecting throughout the piece. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as you enjoy the record and if you aren’t familiar with Czar, that will soon change. Thank you!
Publicity photo taken in July 1970 after Tony Mac Had joined on drums. L-R, Paul Kendrick, Mick Ware, Bob Hodges, Tony Mac.
I was born in Chingford, North East London, in September 1946, I lived in Chingford until I was 21 when my parents moved out of London to Hertfordshire, I then moved to East Finchley in North London. Both my grandmother and my father played the piano and I wanted to learn from an early age, eventually at the age of 8 I had piano lessons.
I continued lessons until I was 16, reaching a reasonable standard, I did however join my first group when I was 15, I had listened to Ray Charles and Chuck Berry records and learnt how to play rock and roll and blues style piano from their records, previously I had only played classical pieces, pop music was frowned upon at school, I was in the school choir but being a pianist I could not be in the school orchestra although I did study the clarinet for a couple of years. Around the age of 17 I started going to local clubs and pubs which had live entertainment, the group that I had joined when I was 15 spent most of our time rehearsing although we did a couple of pub gigs and some private parties, we were all under age to work in pubs, but in those days most pub landlords turned a blind eye to underage drinking.
When I was 17 my piano teacher, who I was still studying theory of music with, had a nephew, Tony McVey, who played the drums in a blues band and they were looking for a pianist, anyway I went to a rehearsal and joined them, they were called 'Red Whites Blues', the lead singer, Laurie Beazley, also played harmonica, we used to play in the youth club where we rehearsed and we started do dances in various local dance halls, blues music had got very popular in the UK, the best known groups were The Rolling Stones and The Yardbirds.
New Jump Band Circa: 1965 L-R back row, Laurie Beazley (vocals), Me (organ), Steve Mugele (tenor sax), Steve Sayer (guitar), Mick Scoble (alto sax), front row L-R, Bob Barker (bass), Tony McVey (drums)
Sometime later the sax player from my first group joined us and in 1964 we got a second sax player and we turned ourselves into a soul band, the 'New Jump Band', we had been listening to Otis Redding, Sam & Dave, Wilson Pickett etc., and we were doing our best to be a white soul band, I loved the music and together with Motown this is still some of my favorite music today. At this point I was playing an electric piano but desperately wanted a Hammond organ, I had heard stuff by organists such as Billy Preston, Jimmy Smith (who I saw when he came to the UK in 1964), Jimmy McGriff, I had seen Billy Preston with Ray Charles when he came to the UK in 1963(I think), I had also seen English players such as Georgie Fame and Zoot Money whom we used to follow around clubs in London.
Finally just after I left school in 1965 I got a Hammond L122 which was the organ used on all my Tuesday's Children and Czar recordings. I continued to use that organ until the early 1980's when I got a Yamaha keyboard which had Hammond style drawbars as well as a polyphonic synth section.
I used to go to the Marquee and the Flamingo in central London, the Flamingo was a particular favorite as the bands were pretty much all soul and blues outfits. Locally we had a blues club in the back room of a pub called the Cooks Ferry Inn which was on the border of Chingford and Edmonton, I used to go there quite regularly to see Zoot Money, Spencer Davis Group (featuring Steve Winwood), Georgie Fame, I even saw Cream there, it was their second gig after making their debut the previous day at the Reading Festival (I think), I had previously seen Eric Clapton with John Mayal's Bluesbreakers, John Mayal also used a Hammond at that time.
The New Jump Band got quite a lot of gigs, both in the London area and further afield, another night to remember was seeing the Stax review with Otis Redding at a club in South London in 1966, the band was made up of the Bar-Kays with some of the MG's but not Booker T to my disappointment, great night though. When I left school I started working in a local industrial company as a trainee management accountant, I enjoyed the 18 months that I worked there and I learnt a lot about costing and balance sheets etc., all of which came in useful later in life.
New Jump Band Circa: 1964 at the El Partido Club in Lewisham, South London. Me on electric piano, no Hammond till 1965.
I really wanted to be a musician however and although I enjoyed the New Jump Band I wanted to turn pro, in December 1966 I answered an advert in the 'Melody Maker' and joined a new band called The Attack. This group was fronted by singer Richard Shirman, and the guitarist was David O'List who later went on to form the Nice with Keith Emerson.
The Attack was managed by Don Arden (Sharon Osbourne's father) and we went into the studio at the end of December 1966 to record 'Try It' a cover of a Standells record, the B side 'We Don't Know', was written by Richard Shirman, David O'List and the bass player Gerry Henderson. We had quite a lot of gigs all over the UK, lots of travelling involved, unfortunately I was the only one who had a drivers licence so I ended up driving the band everywhere as we weren't making enough money to employ a roadie.
The Attack Circa: January 1967, L-R Gerry Henderson (bass), Richard Shirman (vocals), Me (Hammond), David O'List (guitar), Alan White (drums)
Early in 1967 we went back in the studio to record 'Hi Ho Silver Lining' which was released in February 1967, the B side was a David O'List song 'Any More Than I Do.' Unfortunately the guitarist Jeff Beck had also recorded Hi Ho, so of course he ended up with the hit, I think we got to no. 53 in top 100. I worked again in a reformed Attack with David O'List in 2018 when I did some recording with him and we played at the HRH Prog festival in North Wales in November that year. Back to 1967 and at the end of March the Attack split up, Richard Shirman formed a new group called the Attack and David O'List went on to form the Nice. I needed money so I answered another ad in 'Melody Maker' and joined an Irish group called the Kingpins.
The Attack Circa: March 1967, Peter Barnfield had replaced Alan White. He had joined Marmalade.
They were based Germany at the time and were mainly playing on US Airforce and army bases in the US sector of what was then West Germany. A lot of UK and Irish bands were playing in this area, the money was good although you had to play long hours 6 nights a week, it was good experience for a musician. I drove out to Frankfurt to join the band which were in a month long residency at a US Airforce base.
Pretty soon after arriving we started a tour of US bases which took us to cities such as Nuremburg, Munich, Weisbaden, Stuttgart etc. We had our own spot, the Kingpins did all sorts of music from soul to country and pop covers, we the backed the Irish singer Clodagh Rodgers, whose father had an agency and managed the band, she went on to have quite a few hits in the UK, top of the bill was US country star Hank Locklin. I am not a great country fan but he was good to work with and the tour was very successful. After playing in Germany we bought the tour to the UK and played US bases in England and Irish ballrooms up and down the country.
Unfortunately the Kingpins split at the end of the tour, once again I was looking for a band, that's when I answered an ad placed by Tuesday's Children. Tuesday's Children had their origins in a band called Steve Douglas & The Challengers who later changed their name to The Prophets, reforming as Tuesday's Children in 1966. It was August 1967 and Tuesday's Children had had 3 singles out, all songs written by guitarist Phil Cordell, he had left to pursue a solo career, so the 3 remaining members had decided to re-organise the group, 2 sax players also joined at the same time as me.
Poster for a gig at the Roadmender Club, Northampton Circa: 22nd of December 1967. This shows the short lived 6 piece line up of August - November 1967, L-R: Paul Kendrick, Roger Davies, Derrick Gough (seated), Mick Ware, Phil McKenzie, Bob Hodges. This photograph and the one above were taken on the 26th of September 1967, somewhere around Romford/Hornchurch in Essex.
Regarding the 3 previous singles, they were all written by Phil Cordell and recorded independently at Maximum Sound studio in London, the first 2 singles were licensed to Columbia Records, part of EMI (nothing to do with US label CBS) and the 3rd single was on King which was a small independent label known mainly for its reggae releases featuring UK/West Indian artists, the owners of the label were actually Jewish, Rita and Benny Isen, I think they owned Maximum Sound as well. Earlier in 1967 I had also guested on a New Jump Band single recorded at Maximum Sound, that was released on another of the Isen’s labels, Domain, that single, 'Seven Kinds Of Sweet Lovin'/'Only Kind Of Girl' became a hit on the cult Northern Soul scene in later years.
Publicity shot 1968, L-R: Paul Kendrick, Bob Hodges, Mick Ware, seated Derrick Gough.
Tuesday's Children rehearsed the new line up and by September 1967 were on the road. The band had been signed to Pye records and the next 2 singles, 'Baby's Gone' and 'Ain't You Got A Heart' were written by Mitch Murray and Peter Callander, they had had hits with various artists including The Tremeloes who were quite big in the UK at the time. To be honest none of the group liked the songs very much but we had to record them as part of the record deal. The B sides were written by guitarist Mick Ware and both were recorded in about 15 minutes, Baby's Gone was released in November 1967 and Ain't You Got A Heart in January 1968.
They both got a fair bit of radio play but did not chart. The sax players left the group in late 1967 and we decided to go on as a 4 piece, Mick Ware was now doing the lead vocals but myself and Paul Kendrick did a lot of harmony vocals, drummer was Derrick Gough. The stage act at that time consisted of some originals by Mick Ware plus covers of various songs, one that comes to mind was 'Eight Miles High' by the Byrds that we developed into a 10, sometimes 15 minute improvisation that included a section of 'Mars' from the Planets Suite by Gustav Holst.
Informal photo Circa: Winter of 1968/69, L-R: Bob Hodges, Derrick Gough, Paul Kendrick, Mick Ware.
It was quite a thing at the time to reference classical pieces in your act, the Nice were leading the way in that respect. We were gigging a lot up and down the UK and had developed a good stage act, the problem with the Pye singles was that they bore little relation to what we actually doing on stage, anyway our relationship with Pye came to an end and somehow our manager, Dave Vidler, got us signed to Philips, Dave was a quite the hustler and soon we were in the studio to record 'She' and 'Bright Eyed Apples'. 'She' was written by Mick Ware and the orchestral arrangement was also by him although I transcribed the arrangement for him as he couldn't read music.
We gave the arrangement to Johnny Arthey to score the separate parts (no score writing programs in those days!), unfortunately he got the arranging credit when the record was released. 'Bright Eyed Apples' was a song by an English group called the Rokes who were big in Italy and lived there, the original Italian title was 'Mele Mature', this was intended as the A side but it was decided that 'She' would be the A side after it was featured in a short film '29' which was shown in cinemas throughout the UK. The actual session was at the Chappel Studios in New Bond Street in central London, Philips owned Chappels which was a large publisher and had a big music shop on the ground floor of the building, the studio was on the 1st floor.
Publicity shot taken at Covent Garden Market 21st April 1969. There was a suggestion that 'Bright Eyed Apples' should be rerecorded as an advert for 'Cape Fruit Apples'. L-R back: Paul Kendrick, Mick Ware, Bob Hodges, front: Derrick Gough.
In those days the musicians union was very strong in the studios, string players particularly, the orchestral musicians were booked for a 3 hour session and were told that we were a vocal group so we duly sang along with the orchestra with session musicians playing the organ, drums, guitar and bass parts. At the end of the session , having completed the backing tracks we all left the studio to go down to the nearest pub, after an hour or so we went back to the studio and recorded the vocals again and I am pretty sure Mick Ware added another guitar part. The most memorable part of the session was the performance of the trumpeter who used a high pitched D trumpet, like the one on Penny Lane, the poor guy could only play the part a couple of times before his lip went, I remember he got a round of applause from everyone when he had finished recording his part.
It was quite common for groups not to play on their records at the time, it wasn't about musical ability, more about money when you were using orchestral players. We weren't very happy about it at the time but our hands were tied, I did get the organist to use my Hammond drawbar setting so at least it sounded like me on the record. 'She' was released on November 8th 1968 and got quite a lot of publicity and radio plays but did not chart.
Poster for Tuesday's Children gig in Wokingham, Berkshire, 29th September 1968. 5 shillings to get in (25p in todays money!)
I think it was early 1969 when we were asked to do an album, we didn't really have anything much to record although in late 1968 we had recorded a couple of Mick Ware songs and a version of 'Ritual Fire Dance' a piece by classical composer Manuel De Falla, this had become the show stopper of our live act, we had changed the timing of the piece and added an improvised section, on a good night (which they mostly were) the piece could last 10 minutes or more, I think we experimenting quite a lot with our stage act, but we needed more original material.
The one gig that really stands out for me was the Cambridge Midsomer Pop Festival on 8th June 1969, there is a short video of us performing part of 'Ritual Fire Dance' on Youtube, link on the website. Although we had done outdoor gigs before, there was definitely something magic in the air that day, earlier in 1969 we had changed management to an agency based in Cambridge, they used to get us quite a lot of gigs at the university which were great to do, we felt that our act had become more adult and experimental which was attractive to university and college audiences.
Tuesday's Children on stage at the Cambridge Midsummer Pop festival, 8th of June Circa: 1969.
Mick Ware and Paul Kendrick, Cambridge 8th June 1969.
Bob Hodges, Cambridge, 8th June 1969.
Also we were incorporating much more original material into the act, in the spring of 1969, Paul Kendrick, the bass player, mentioned that he had written some songs, he had a TEAC tape recorder that enabled him to multitrack and he had made demos of the songs for us to hear. The songs were a revelation to me and I think the others, Paul was a quiet man who was a bit shy, he was very young, I think he was only 16 when I first met him.
Poster for gig at the Lyceum Ballroom in Central London, 12th September 1969, supporting King Crimson.
We went back into the studio in around May 1969 and started recording the songs that would appear on the Czar album. I would refer you to the website for details of the recordings, suffice to say that by the end of 1969 the recordings for the Czar album were almost complete. We also decided at that point to change the name of the band, we felt that 'Tuesday's Children' was too 'poppy' and now we were a bit older and wiser we decided on 'Czar' as the new name.
We finally finished the album in February when we recorded 'Cecelia' and 'Ritual Fire Dance', we had previously recorded both tracks before but with different arrangements, playing these songs live a lot had improved the arrangements no end. Unfortunately Derrick Gough had decided to quit the band, his last gig was the one at the Marquee on January 17th 1970, finding a replacement drummer wasn't easy, after auditioning quite a few we settled on a guy called Alan from Hampstead, North London, we had one rehearsal with him and he played drums on the February 1970 sessions detailed above.
Paul Kendrick at the first Czar gig at the Marquee Club, Wardour Street, London 17th January 1970. This photo shows Pauls trademark hat which was used in the artwork for the LP cover, and also his Fender Precision Bass.
He did do one gig with us but then he got an offer from another band which left us without a drummer again. We were also having management problems, in the spring of 1970 we left the Rufus Manning agency in Cambridge and got a new management team in called Anastasia Promotions. Anastasia was a couple of friends of mine called Jonathan Brewer and Robert Patterson, they were stockbrokers in the City of London but wanted to move into music as promoters and managers, Jonathan Brewer came from a wealthy family so the finance came from him, he has later gone on the have a very successful career in making rock documentaries.
In the meantime Philips had completed the artwork for the album, and it was ready for release in May 1970. The album was released on Fontana, no idea why, we would liked it to be on the Vertigo label which was Philips prog rock label, but that was not to be, we were never told why it was on Fontana. Unfortunately this was just before Anastasia took control so there was hardly any publicity or promotion for the album, I think only 500 copies were pressed initially, I know we got a royalty cheque for about £70.00 which paid for new clutch for our group van.
Also at the Marquee Club, 17th January 1970, Mick Ware and Bob Hodges showing Micks' Gibson 325 (?) thinline semi acoustic guitar and Bobs' Hammond L122 organ.
After the commercial failure of the album, I think we were all disappointed because we thought that it was a good album with some excellent tracks on it. Anastasia were then paying us a retainer and we weren't gigging at all, something that I was not happy with because I have always felt that to get the best out a band you have to perform in front of an audience, we spent the summer of 1970 rehearsing which is fine but as I say you want to get out there and perform, let the people see you and enjoy your music. Incidentally Ton Mac joined on drums when Anastasia took over the management, up till then we had not been able to find anyone to replace Derrick Gough, we weren't gigging very much, I think Derrick even came back and did one gig when we needed a drummer.
Paul Kendrick with Gibson(?) acoustic guitar, Upshire, Essex village hall, summer 1970. Czar rehearsed here a lot during July/August and September 1970, getting it together in the country!
Tony Mac also at Upshire, summer of 70.
Philips still had faith in us it seems because we were back in the studio in October 1970 to record 'Oh Lord I'm Getting Heavy', details on the website under Czar, other recordings. Once again the single got good reviews and some radio play. The gig situation had picked up from the middle of 1970, we were doing a few gigs each month although nothing like the number we were doing in Tuesday's Children days. Early in 1970 I had been gigging with some friends from my New Jump Band days at pub in South London, I was playing every Friday, Saturday and Sunday and the money came in very useful.
I stopped doing this when Anastasia took over as they were paying us a retainer, and also I needed to be available for Czar gigs. However by the end of 1970 I was not happy with what was going on, we were moving away from the prog rock sound of the album and I wasn't happy with the number of gigs and so after giving it a great deal of thought at the beginning of 1971 I decided to quit.
This was an Anastasia Promotions publicity photo of Czar taken for the release of 'Oh Lord I'm Getting Heavy' The location was Waltham Abbey in Essex. My copy has faded over the years, so the quality of the above image is not very good. It does show the line up from the end of October 1970 to January 1971. L-R Mick Ware, Johnny Parker, Bob Hodges, Paul Kendrick.
My last gig was at Ronnie Scotts upstairs club which was above the famous jazz club in central London. After I left Czar didn't replace me with another keyboard player, Paul Kendrick went on to 12 string guitar, there was a new bass player and Tony Mac had been replaced in late 1970 by Johnny Parker, a great drummer who I had the privilege to work with for a short time. Czar eventually ceased in late 1971 when Mick Ware left. The recordings made in 1971 were all Paul Kendrick songs and show a change of direction to AOR style of music, most of these recordings are on the Czar anthology CD released by Sunbeam Records in 2007.
After I left Czar I sat in with a couple of bands but in the spring of 1971 I rejoined my former New Jump Band colleagues in the pub band at the Thomas A Beckett in the Old Kent Road, South London. By this time I was back living in East London, we all lived near each other and we would pack the pub out every Friday, Saturday and Sunday. We would often do midweek gigs as well and sometimes we would do River Thames boat trips on Sundays before the evening gig at the Beckett. We called the band 'Blunderbus', sadly myself and the singer (Laurie Beazley) are the only survivors, the guitarist, Steve Taylor, the bass player, John Cushen, and the drummer, Mick Bick, have all passed away, we did have a good time though and that band, which did mostly covers of blues, soul and suitable chart songs lasted until 1980. There were lots of bands like Blunderbus in the 1970's, pub rock was quite a thing in the UK, and there were lots of venues to play in, the Beckett had bands playing every night, something that is very rare today.
Flyer publicising Czar's appearance at the upstairs room at Ronnie Scots Jazz Club, 4th January 1971.
Flyer for Emmanuel College, Cambridge May Ball 16th June 1970. The Cambridge University May Balls were lavish affairs that went on all night, I seem to remember doing a set at 4am at one of them once.
As the 1970's progressed we all acquired wives, children and mortgages so the money we made from regular gigs was important, probably one of the reasons that the band lasted so long. After Blunderbus I joined another South London group called 'Freeway', they had a female lead singer which was a first for me, she was an excellent vocalist and could handle a wide variety of material, all covers of course. We were doing mainly clubs in and around London with some functions (like weddings etc) as well.
I quite enjoyed that but that came to a halt in 1981, I then joined another club and function band, again doing covers, again working regularly at the weekends. After I left Czar in 1971 I started doing temporary driving jobs to make some money, eventually in January 1972 I went to work in a music shop, by 1976 I was managing the shop, I stayed there until 1981 when I was head hunted for a new shop that was opening in West Byfleet in Surrey, south west of London, where I have lived since 1987, I managed that shop until 2006 when I moved to a larger shop, also in Surrey, I only stayed there for a couple of years, the owner turned out to be a control freak, not nice to work for at all, so I moved to another music shop in Kingston Upon Thames, which is south west London, I finally retired in 2017 at the age of 69.
Me and my Hammond and Hohner electric piano, rehearsing at the Thomas A Beckett pub around 1975.
I loved working in the music trade, apart from getting instruments at trade prices, the people that that you were dealing with were mostly like minded, most of the people I worked with were fellow musicians, some of whom were amazingly talented and went on to better things. To return to playing, I spent 1981 - 1996 playing in clubs and pubs and doing the occasional wedding or other function. In 1996 I auditioned for a function band called 'In The Red', This band had 2 lead singers, male and female, guitar, bass, drums, saxophone, trombone, 2 trumpets, I got the audition because I knew the trumpet players, they were customers in my shop, one day they came in and asked me if I knew any keyboard players, once they told me what sort of band it was and the work they were getting, I was very interested.
I was a bit fed up playing in small clubs where the bands were sometimes taken for granted, this was a chance to go on to bigger and better things. In The Red were doing lots of nice functions in very nice hotels, we worked all over southern England doing weddings, corporate events, masonics and the occasional pub. After a while I started to do the arrangements for the band, pretty much everyone in the band read music so I was able to communicate my ideas to the others. In The Red were very successful for many years, unfortunately the guitarist passed away in late 2008, although we got a replacement, it was never the same, eventually I think the band ran out of steam and split up in 2014.
Finally later in 2014 I joined a 1960's soul band called the All Night Workers that had split in the 1970's but reformed in 2012, the guitar player, the sax player and one of the trumpet players had been in In The Red so it was great to be working with them again. We have done quite a lot of gigs, pubs, clubs, a couple of festivals, playing the music that we all love, there are usually 9 of us on stage but sometimes there is a girl singer who joins us plus extra horn players, I think the record was 13 people on one gig. Unfortunately this all came to a halt in March 2020, the last gig was in February 2020 everything else was cancelled, no gigs this year at all although a few venues have opened with restricted audiences in May this year.
Poster of Czar from 1971, top L-R: John Parker, Paul Kendrick, bottom L-R: Mick Ware, Brian Jackson (bass guitar).
We have had quite a few Zoom meetings though and we are having a rehearsal later this month now that restrictions are easing, this will be the first time we have met in person since Feb 2020. I think we have all been very patient during the pandemic, we have all had our vaccinations and I hope we can arrange some gigs for later this year, we have been contacting people and hope that venues will start reopening soon. Personally I have found the lockdowns a bit frustrating, in the early months of the pandemic we basically stayed at home, there were plenty of things to do, I did all the paintwork on the front of the house, I painted our garden room at the back of the house, and when summer arrived we did manage to get out a bit although most attractions were closed.
My other main activity is making videos about mainly road transport, ie buses, trams (streetcars) and sometimes railways, I have my own Youtube channel, last time I looked I had had getting on for 2 million views which is not bad for a specialist interest. I also have a website selling transport DVDs that I have made. Transport has been a lifelong interest, gigging all over has helped me maintain that interest. When the pandemic started of course I couldn't go out anywhere filming, I had to cancel trips that I had planned, however what I did have was a bit of a backlog of unpublished material, so that kept me going until I was able to travel, albeit locally, again.
I am looking forward to playing again, music has been a very important part of my life, my wife was a music teacher until she retired, (she was a customer!) 2 of my 3 sons play various instruments, working for more than 40 years in the music trade was very important to me. I hope that I can continue to play for awhile yet, age does bring problems, most of the All Night Workers are over 70, 3 of the band have been seriously ill in the last couple of years, fortunately they are now recovered, it does make you wonder sometimes how much longer it will last. Never mind I think that you have to enjoy it while you can.
The Attack: David O'List and Me rehearsing in 2018.
