Eugene Robinson - Whipping Boy / OxBow / Bunuel
When and where were you born?
1962. New York City.
Are you originally from New York?
Most definitely. No other place would have me.
What was growing up like for you?
You want a real honest answer to that question when you're asking it? Ask people if they like holiday music any month other than December... That will tell you all you need to know. I recall my early life being full of magic and love. I didn't detect a marked downturn in any of those things until my great-grandmother died. She was a force of nature and phenomenal and, as it turns out, was the glue that held us all together in a way. She was outlived by her siblings, my great uncle and aunt, but things were not the same. They weren't horrible. But she died when I was 10 and, so 1972 was just a weird year for the world in total. And growing up in New York of the 1970s, things didn't get less so, to answer the question though: you might find me listening to holiday music any day of the week!
Do you have any siblings?
Four sisters. I am the oldest.
When did you first begin to have a fascination with music?
I remember being 3 or 4 years old. My mother gave me some records and a record player. I also inherited all of my father's jazz records when they got divorced. and my stepfather had pretty great taste in music as well and reviewed and interviewed a lot of the artists that I was really digging on as a young person: Curtis Mayfield, Chaka Khan, and whole lot of Salsa music.
Do you play any instruments as well?
Dabbled with violin, banjo, bass, keyboards... But never long enough... When I retire that is the first thing I will do.
What groups left a huge impression/impact on you early on?
The Temptations. I think their Psychedelic Shack was the first record I bought. Elvis. The Beatles. Fats Domino.
What would you and your friends do for fun in the early days?
Played. Built go-carts, movies, unicycles, roller-skates and swimming.
Prior to Oxbow you participated in the hard core group Whipping Boy. Can you tell me about that and how you initially met your bandmates?
I spent the summer of 1981 working a job for the NYC Dept. of Parks. It was an office job that involved me just sitting in an office doing nothing outside of covering for the guy who never came into the office. a real no-show city job. So I spent that summer alone in that office during the day and going out to shows at night. It was during that summer that I started The Birth of Tragedy Magazine AND had this idea that I would start a band as well. Came to California and wouldn't shut up about it. I was told that there was this big, football player who also played guitar and he was wanting to start a band too. I found him, walking down the street to the library and introduced myself and we were in business. The first drummer was a guy named Dave. the first bass player was a guy named Adam... Fun fact: his father was the guy who ran The Stanford Prison Experiment. Anyway they didn't work out and we heard about this rhythm section from some guy who was going to start a rockabilly group. So we just poached them, and there we were.
What were your first impressions of them?
Well I had seen Steve, the guitarist, in the weight room before. Also at a party where I had taken LSD for the first time. I remembered him from the gym. From the party? I wasn't sure I hadn't imagined him, but he was a genius and was not at all and not nearly ever bowled over by the bulldozer that was me right out of New York. Sam and Dave, bass and drums, respectively, were quiet but compelling and interesting in ways that now I appreciate made us very lucky.
What led to the decision to start Whipping Boy and when exactly was that?
The summer of '81. I just started having the strong sense that I could do it better. It took me a long time for that to be the truth though.
What did you want to express and achieve with this group that was different from a lot of the other bands coming out at the time?
See… That's the thing: who knew? I was listening to a lot of anything/everything... And went to see everyone... Gang of Four, Klaus Nomi, The Ramones, Johnny Thunders, Lydia Lunch... Those were up river. I didn't have the emotional palette to do what they did or figure out how to get to that place where the music of ME existed, but seeing Black Flag with Dez singing crystallized a lot for me and I knew I could do something like that. Years later when I was doing the Black Face project with Chuck Dukowski I realized that I was probably out of my depth there too, hahah... Those songs are deceptively hard to do, but I was acting as well. Plays.
Auditioning for tv stuff and so on and I knew that music was going to be much more artistically fulfilling. I mean I was writing what I was singing... But what to write and what to sing? Well as "luck" would have it these were some personally tough times for me, so yeah the answer came quite quickly. I'd write about THAT. I never had political aspirations for the music despite Malcolm X quote on our first record and like half of our songs. I was always much more interested in OUR weirdness and when we stopped playing hardcore it got even weirder and therefore BETTER for me.
What did you want your sound to be?
Hardcore, but I had one band before this. Probably less a band and more a stunt. It was called Al & the X's... I played Sax. mostly because I loved James Chance AND because I had noted that whenever a Black guy shows up with a sax people assume (1 that he can play it and 2) it's going to sound great. Neither of these was true.
What was the chemistry like between everyone upon first meeting/jamming together? When/where was the group’s first gig?
We liked each other. I mean this is back when your band was like your gang. Steve and I are like brothers and still in touch today. Dave I just call when I need info because he's also a genius and a bonafide hotshot now. Look him up. Dave Owens at Vanderbilt University. Sam has disappeared from the face of the earth. Especially if that is what they call New Hampshire, but he was a doctor when we last checked. Which is also what Steve had been. Well Steve was actually a surgeon, but our first show was with The Effigies and the Circle Jerks... We weren't supposed to play. We just asked if we could. They took a look at us and said "sure"... So we did three songs before the Circle Jerks came out and we used The Effigies equipment. I'm eternally thankful to them both.
You guys released a cassette in ‘82 on Slutboy Music. Can you tell me about writing and recording those songs for that release?
Sorry. I cannot. I remember recording them in some fraternity guy's room. He wanted to be a recording engineer. Adam the bass player had a nervous breakdown mid-session and fled and I wanted to kill him. I remembered that. I also remembered that the songs and the show with the Circle Jerks was enough for us to make the acquaintance of Klaus from the Dead Kennedys. He later produced a bunch of stuff for us and then, and this is something I usually forget, played on the first OXBOW record. But the songs? Lyrics I had written for just the occasion. Lyrics Steve had written. Songs Steve had written. Hard. Fast and easy to learn. Plus: Steppimng Stone, a hardcore staple since the Sex Pistols made it so… Also Agent Orange's Bloodstains. I remember the first practice being nervous about singing. Steve screamed at me..."You're the SINGER! Get over there and SING!" so I did.
That following year in ‘83, the band saw its first LP release, ‘The Sound Of No Hands Clapping’. What was that experience like to finally have an official release and in that format? How did the deal with CFY Records, a label you guys would become very connected with throughout your career, and what was that experience like writing and recording this release?
It was our label. How to make it all happen though? East Bay Ray spent like an hour on the phone with me and explained it all. I love him for doing this. Plus we were in the Not So Quiet On the Western Front compilation and we had already done one tour by the time the record had come out. Ian MacKaye had helped majorly getting shows in the second tour, though he now complains we bullied him for cash. I don't say this didn't happen because, I mean, of course if I have ever been guilty of anything it's been this, but you know... That should have been expected, hahahah… It was great having a record out. Tom Mallon, a phenomenal guy, recorded it. And it's no accident it's my favorite Whipping Boy record. Fun fact: the hands on the cover belong to another now hotshot... Harvard professor Engseng Ho, but I had not EAT to get that record out. my father had disowned me, and my mother was going through a divorce and I could pay for school or eat and have no record, or not eat and have a record. stealing food from food lockers and eating clubs around Stanford, as well as friends feeding me kept me alive.
Did you guys tour, or play a string of shows around this time in order to support the release?
Yes… Shows with Minor Threat, Negative Approach, The Meatmen, The Crucifucks, Legal Weapon... The list goes on and on....
‘84 saw the release of ‘Muru Muru’. What did you guys want to express/achieve with this record that was different from the previous releases? The band added another guitarist for this album, correct?
Everything. We thought the people who bought the first record were Whipping Boy fans and that they would follow. They were hardcore fans and they would not. which in the end, was OK... This was probably our worst produced record but it's my favorite one artistically. It was clear... We were over hardcore and were heading into stranger places. That is our emotional palette was widening. this was also when Sam and Dave said they were leaving. A decision that worked and made sense to me then and now.
How did you guys become connected with Jim and Art Smothers on this project?
Steve knew them. I was never sure how.
At this point in the band’s history, you have a few releases under your belt. What has changed since you first began on this journey? How had you developed as a front man as well as an artist up to this point?
Well my thinking about WHY I was doing what I was doing started to change. Admittedly I had careerist notions about what I was doing even if I was steadily pursuing Plan B's by way of "real" jobs. I knew plenty of people who were making a living with music and thought that I should/could too, but something started to happen. I started resenting spending money I had made from my art to do things like paying for the utility bill. So I started to think that I should pay Caesar with what was Caesar's. THAT is what so-called real work was for. This liberated the art, as it was now no longer tied to needs and more to wants. Which will change how you look at things completely in the same way that "what do you want to do?" is very different from "what do you need to do?" As a front man I was stuck though. Like Mussolini once said, or to paraphrase, what I wanted, I didn't know. But what I knew I didn't want.
Tell me about writing and recording the band’s ‘85 release ‘The Third Secret Of Fatima’? What was the process and approach to this record like? How long did this take to record from start to finish? Did you guys hit the road once it was finished?
This was the first and only record that featured two guitars and no Steve Ballinger. Bernie Grundman, who also mastered Prince, mastered it. It was recorded by Klaus and a total asshole named John Cuniberti. I just paid for it and it cost me more than I had ever spent on a record before at the time. I remember nothing else about it, though I'm sure Niko would as this marked the beginning of a working relationship that continues to this day and he's a studio genius. I'm the lyricist, frontman and back then the writer of checks.
You guys released one more record, a single entitled ‘Crow’, in ‘86 on CFY Records. Was this the last thing to come from the band?
Yes. I hate the artwork on this so much I destroyed copies of the release rather than sell them. I get emotional sometimes.
What eventually happened to Whipping Boy after this?
We sued Sony for trammeling our copyright with that horrible Irish band who tried to steal our name. They contacted us over the years and I had always advised them to change the name. They did not. On top of that their lawyer was rude and dismissive and tried to buy me off for $200. I dug in. They paid quite a bit more. Last time OXBOW played Dublin one of their friends came up to me to complain. Said I had ruined the band. I said their lack of imagination had ruined the band. So, for the record, Whipping Boy is still a band. You should hear our last release, Subcreature: The Fucked Years… It exists. But hard to find.
What were your activities between Whipping Boy and starting Oxbow? What did you want to express and/or achieve with Oxbow that maybe you couldn’t with Whipping Boy
I thought a lot about suicide. And a failed love affair. And a way to combine the two. Working in Silicon Valley, lifting weights, taking karate and some weird combination of steroids and hallucinogens. These may have contributed to my imbalance. OXBOW was designed to explain all of this.
What led to the decision to form Oxbow and when exactly did that take place? Can you tell me about that initial jam session together and what the chemistry was like right off the bat?
I started to record drum tracks. and then moved on to bass. it was slow going and miserable. I had all of the other pieces in mind. The lyrics, the song titles, the project name. But I finally realized I could never do the music. I asked Niko to help me. It was important to have it understood that this was not musical democracy but that I needed him to help me ENACT a very specific vision. he could bring and do it however he wanted but it had to be the music in my head. he listened, understood and immediately grasped where it was going and what we needed to get there. I believe Bullseye was the first song we did together, but I may have that wrong.
Continuing your relationship with CFY Records, the band released it’s debut LP ‘Fuck Fest’ in ‘89. Can you tell me about writing and recording this record?
Just did. Outside of recording, which we did with Bart Thurber from the House of Faith recording studio. A studio I named. But Bart had been in Whipping Boy and could work wonders with a 16 track recording rig. So much, so that that was how we later got Albini's interest. Jack Endino even walked into the studio one day. Bart is a legend. And we have Fuckfest and King of the Jews to thank him for. Did I mention the studio at first was in the house where we -- Niko, Bart and I all lived? It was.
You guys would go on to release one more record on CFY. First, what eventually happened to where the band never returned to their roster and can you tell me about the process and approach you guys took to create ‘King Of The Jew’ in ‘91?
CFY releases all of our music. All of our music on other labels is still CFY. We just license the music to other labels. you see, CFY is us, but by the time King of the Jews came we had already toured Europe once. And by toured I mean a press junket in London and two shows there. It was no longer going to be a suicide note. The fact that people listened and liked it... That it resonated with them changed my whole outlook and life. That and falling in love again helped immeasurably.
I don’t want to skim over the rest of the band’s incredible discography and releases that would span over the next 20 plus years, but I’m curious to know how you’ve coped and managed to stay above water during the pandemic. As a musician, it was virtually impossible to express, let alone support yourself during that time. What were some things that kept you busy as well as positive?
I'm the father of four daughters and the grandfather to one grandson. The very idea of them existing is the only positive thing I need, but my Plan B had me employed this entire time. Though I, after 9 years in the worst job ever, got fired in June 2021. For? For not pulling down my sub-stack, a blog that was making up for the 19 percent salary cut they foisted on me. Of course a few months after they fired me the company exploded in a most glorious fashion with my ex-boss now looking at investigations with the justice department, the IRS and the SEC...
It was a $40 million attempted robbery and was crazy enough that not only did I get to write about it for the New York Times, but I've signed on to not one, but 2 movie deals about it. So this has kept me busy. I got another job in November. I'm Assistant Vice President at a company, amusingly enough, called WONGDOODY. It's an agency owned by the billion dollar company Infosys, but I've also lost 27 friends and associates and almost my mother, but I'm never not busy. I have podcasts, I'm addicted to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and my youngest kid is almost 2 (my oldest is almost 26)... So I am busy. Because, as you know, idle hands are the devil's playground.
Are you playing, or having anything booked for this year?
BUNUEL, one of my most favorite side projects is touring Europe for 2 weeks in July. On Killers Like Us, the new (and third) record. This one is on Profound Lore and La Tempesta. It's a great record.
Anything new on the horizon for Oxbow, or any of your other music projects?
OXBOW is finishing LOVE'S HOLIDAY... It will be out in 2023 on Ipecac. It's a monster as well and there will be a tour as well, videos and a book to go with it.
Is there anything else you would like to further share with the readers?
Sure: check out my podcast. If you can stand it... The Eugene S. Robinson Show Stomper...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCec3tlLX1-FW5v9YbO7-NnA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCec3tlLX1-FW5v9YbO7-NnA
https://eugenesrobinson.substack.com/
Dakota Brown
