When and where were you born?

San Bernardino, California, September 29th, 1948.

**One of the first photos of John with his mother, Pearl. 775 Sterling Avenue, San Bernardino, CA.**

**John’s mother Huldah Pearl French, who insisted on being called "Pearl." Barefoot, riding a horse bareback, probably in Crestline, CA. in the San Bernardino Mountains.**

Are you originally from Lancaster, CA?

No, my father had been involved in the aircraft industry in WWII. After a short stint of returning to his original occupation as an upholsterer, he found that he could make more money in aircraft, and I remember him working for Northrup Aircraft in Hawthorn, California. We lived in two different places in San Bernardino when I was a child: both of them rentals.

**John’s father, Thomas Orville French. He was born in 1908.**

Lancaster is about 1 ½ hours NorthWest of San Bernardino, and we moved because my father was transferred to a place known as “Plant 42” – which was a bunch of hangers located between Lancaster and Palmdale ( 9 miles South). I had three older brothers one 17, one 16 and one 11 years older. The middle brother, Tom, also moved up after returning from the Korean War, and took a job painting the insignias on the planes for the same company. They lived two houses a way. My father specialized in Radar, and became interested in electronics.

This was 1955 or '56. We hadn't been in the Mojave Desert ( Quartz Hill) long, when my brother and his family came for a visit. My mother posed me with my Nephew Dave and Niece Lorraine. Right after this, we all caught Chicken Pox. I remember having them in my eyes and being REALLY sick. Joan ( their mother) was really touched because I told her I was glad that I got it worse than the little ones because I was OLDER and could handle it. In this photo, I was wearing my favorite cowboy shirt with red fringe and those pointy angled useless pockets. It was the Summer and it was HOT. No air conditioning back then and though it was dry heat, the temperature was 110 F + some days. Somehow, we all survived. When I watched news coverage about the recent Measles outbreak, all I could do was laugh. I had Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox ( in reverse order, I think) and basically kicked back, watched a lot of cartoons, and got more ice cream than usual.

Nine, or ten years old John’s with his little niece, April. Probably in 1957 or ‘58. John’s oldest brother, Dave, had his car parked in the driveway. He had rebuilt the engine himself just prior to moving his family from NY to CA. Quartz Hill, Ca.

Pearl and my three older brothers. Dave, (middle) was suffering from some kind of illness due to the cold weather in Ohio. My father didn't want to move, but the doc said Dave would die if he wasn't in a warmer climate. She packed up the kids, sold everything she could, and taking one trunk with all her and their worldly belongings, took a train to San Diego where her brother had moved, leaving my father behind. They camped on the beach for weeks, as they had no money. Eventually, the war broke out and my mother went to work for Consolidated Aircraft in San Diego, and was the first woman to walk through the doors. She was the original "Rosie the Riveter!" It made the front page.

What was growing up like for you?

I was born in “The Year of Television” – 1948. We only had a radio in the house until 1951 or so, and then a TV was sitting in the living room – when the cost finally came down a bit. I remember the first show I saw on television was an old film noire version of “Alice In Wonderland.” I was fascinated. It was Saturday, and my folks were out shopping. This was before we moved to Lancaster. My favorite shows were “Laurel and Hardy” and “Amos and Andy,” – which was the first time I ever realized there were black people.

When we first moved into Lancaster from Quartz Hill, I had no friends, so my mother, who didn't drive, would walk with me down to Woolworth's to get a 1/2 Pound Burger on Saturday. We took this photo in the booth at Woolworth's.

Do you have any siblings?

As I mentioned earlier, three, but my oldest, Dave, went into the Navy around the time I was born, my second, Tom, was drafted into the Korean War, so only my youngest, Phil, was the only one around, and was mostly my baby-sitter and tormentor. In San Bernardino, he had taken and interest in drums and had bought a pair of drumsticks. After we moved, he was very upset because he had to leave his girlfriend, Laverne, behind, and so rushed his high school studies to graduate a semester early and join the Air Force. He hated the desert.

**John’s cousin, Fred Bainter, holding David French Jr.(John’s oldest brother's firstborn, who is now deceased) and John’s Uncle John Bainter (deceased), holding a Telecaster. Circa: mid-fifties.**

John’s brother Phill took this picture of me when I was five trying to hold a hat on my dog's head. She, obviously, did NOT like this idea. It was a special day for my brother and I. I posed in the hat, then he posed in the hat, then, of course, the dog had to pose -- like it or not. I was giggling so hard I could barely function. This was taken in San Bernardino, California. Probably early 1954 or late '53. We moved to Lancaster, CA, in the Mojave Desert shortly afterward. This doggy grew up with me and died the year I graduated High School. My Dad deserted the family in my Senior Year, so it wasn't the happiest of times anyway. Some years you just want to forget, but when I look at this photo, I remember how much fun I had chasing this little pup around the yard, stealing her bones, Plus, she was a great popcorn-catcher and a good watchdog.

**John’s brother, Phillip Norman French.**

When did you first begin to fall in love with music and what was it about the drums that initially fascinated you?

My fourth grade teacher, at Quartz Hill Elementary School. We didn’t initially move exactly to Lancaster, but Quartz Hill, which was about 8 miles West of Lancaster, in Summer, 1954. Mrs. Summers was the wife of Stan Summers, the local music teacher. She played piano, and occasionally would have us sing. She heard my singing voice, and made me sing in front of the class. I hated it, but she recognized my ability to actually hit a note – even in a group of students. She also played a record one day of all the major instruments in an orchestra, with spoken dialogue and little demonstrations of each instruments. Then, Stan came in and had us all playing “song flutes” – which were little plastic recorders.

My parents didn’t buy me one, so I just sat a listened. It sounded horrible. Most of the kids would spit out little staccato notes, most of which were wrong. I watched Stan grimace the whole time, but trying to hide it behind a supportive expression. I wanted to play clarinet, once the band started, but again, my father would not spend money on a rental, so, Stan, who had recognized my musical potential, encouraged me to play what he called a “French Horn,” – which was actually a “Mellophone” – a 3-valve instrument that fingered like a trumpet, but designed like a French Horn. It was a way to get the “sound” by switching trumpet players over. I picked it up quickly. The horn was a loaner, and didn’t have a case, so it was a bit smashed up. Kids would grab it and try to blow through it if I left it lying around, so I wound up guarding it after school on band days (once or twice a week).

**John at his 8th Grade Graduation. He had just gotten his dinner jacket and charcoal slacks from J. C. Penny.**

What would you and your friends do for fun?

My neighbors and I rode bikes around the neighborhood. It was fairly-safe, though we had one pedophile who lived a few houses down. I figured this out when my best friend, Steven Shuler and I were walking back from the corner market. He stopped and tried to give us a ride. Steven knew better and pulled my arm. I was way too trusting – a trait which was my downfall later. Steven was a special kid – very smart, and just being around him increased my knowledge of science. I used to watch Superman ( George Reeves ) at his house. The neighborhood had large lots and lots of sagebrush. Most of the properties were underdeveloped.

Did you go to many local shows in your area?

The Antelope Valley was sort of cut-off from Los Angeles, so there weren’t many shows here. We’re skipping ahead several years now to the early sixties. I do remember being able to go to a couple of dinner clubs that allowed minors and watching night club acts. This was when I first started playing and was maybe 13 or 14. I had given up the French Horn, even though I was in the local district band by that time and had moved from Quartz Hill to Lancaster. The difference between the mellophone and the French horn made it like I had to learn all over again. I could walk to the movies and there was a lot more to do.

A friend of mine, John Parr, had taken up the drums. Coincidentally, he moved from Quartz Hill to Lancaster around the same time as me, so we hung out for a while, but we both hung with different crowds, but I took an interest in drums about the same time I found out he was taking lessons. Remember the drumsticks I mentioned that my brother Phil had bought? Suddenly, I discovered them in a drawer and started beating on anything and everything. The plastic trash can was best, and made a good sound, so, I used it a lot. Eventually, when my mother picked up the trash bin and the bottom fell out, she and my father bought me an old set from “Ed and Mary’s Fix-It Shop.” I had discovered them while picking up a toaster my parents had repaired.

What was the music scene in your community like back in those days?

Mostly local bands that played surf music and top forty stuff. There was one band called “The Bountys” that were the best, and their drummer was John Parr, my friend. So, I got the chance to hear them a couple of times. They had two singers that did a great Righteous Brothers tribute. The guys were mostly older than John – in the mid-twenties, so John wound up living a life far above what he was able to emotionally handle. The pianist had a prototype of what became the Fender Rhodes electric Piano. I think they were a seven-piece group. There was also “Merrel and the Exiles” – a four-piece band whose leader was Merrel Fankhauser.

Coincidentally, Jeff Cotton was in both groups at different times, though I never saw him in “The Bountys.” Jeff stood out in school as “the only kid with long hair” as he was playing professionally and had a note that gave him permission. The first time I played publicly was in a bar called “The Longhorn Inn.” They served food, and the band asked me to set in. Their drummer was also their singer. I played while he sang, and they loved my drumming, but I was not allowed to work there even though they offered me the job. I had to be 21. The band later became “The Tyrell Brothers,” if memory serves.

**Merrell & The Exiles formed in 1963, Lancaster, California, USA.**

Were there any groups you saw that made a huge impact on you?

Within a year, I played at the Teenage Fair, which was held at the Hollywood Palladium. The first band I was in was called “The Maltesemen” (maltese crosses were a big surf icon apparently). We won a spot playing next to a group called “The Rising Sons.” This group contained Taj Mahal, Ry Cooder, and Gary Marker. Someone screwed up the schedule, so we wound up playing at the same time in the booth right next to them. So, we took turns. That was my introduction to blues.

**Rising Son (with Taj Mahal) circa: 1966.**

Who were some of your favorite groups in those early days?

After leaving The Malteseman, I was in a group with Jeff Cotton, Don Giesen ( gtr ) and bassist, Jim Fergueson. At first, we were focusing on top forty, but I focused more on black groups. James Brown was my hero. I loved the band and the rhythms. I found myself more listening to black performers and Rhythm and Blues. Sam and Dave, Otis Redding, Ray Charles and The Supremes. The other guys were more into the Beatles and the Stones. We finally all found out that we loved The Yardbirds, mostly due to guitar hero Jeff Beck. It was around this time we all heard of the early Beefheart band.

Can you tell me about seeing The Omens and hanging out with Doug Moon?

I met Doug Moon when he worked with my Dad at one of the aircraft companies. I’m thinking North American, but there were several, Northrup, Convair, Lockheed, etc. I didn’t really hang out with him, as he was 4-5 years older than me. He did want to start a band at one point, and I went to one rehearsal, but he wasn’t really the leader-type. I never once saw the Omens play, they were just about over when I started playing.

Can you tell me about participating in “Merrell and The Exiles?”

A very complicated bunch of groups at the time. “Merrel and the Exiles” were just “The Exiles” at first. I had heard them at a couple of school dances when I was playing in “The Maltesemen.” Later, Jeff Cotton, who was playing with them, left, and I joined he and Don Giesen and eventually Jim Fergueson in a band we called “The Intruders.” Later, Jeff quit school and started touring with Merrel. Eventually, Don Giesen joined them. I guess at some point, Merrel actually quit his own band and came back to Lancaster, but the guys went on for a while. They had bassist Larry Willy and Greg Hampton on drums. They had all quit high school to tour.

The parents all agreed, because the British invasion had begun and everyone thought they would be a “star.” After Merrel quit, I joined him, Jim Fergueson, and a guitarist from the Maltesemen named Mark Thompson. We played together for a short time as “Merrel and the Exiles.” Merrel and I didn’t hit it off, and Greg didn’t hit it off with “The Exiles” who wanted me on drums ( mostly Jeff and Don). So, I wound up going back with The Exiles, while Greg, I believe, went with Merrel.

How did you initially meet Jeff Cotton and how did joining that group all come about in ‘64?

I was practicing with “The Maltesemen” in the bassist’s back yard on the patio. I was playing the drum solo to “Surf Drums” ( Dick Dale ) and suddenly these two guys hopped the five foot block wall and were sitting on it. It was Jeff and Don, who were driving by and heard me. They had a lesson shop just down the road from me.

**Jeff Cotton photographed by Guy Webster circa late 1967.**

When and where did you play your very first live performance and what was that experience like for you?

I played a dance at the local Community College with “The Maltesemen.” I was so excited I didn’t know what to do. When I did my solo on “Surf Drums,” people stood around and started clapping. I was, of course, in heaven. I also got to get up and sing “Monster Mash” while our bassist played drums. It was Halloween!

You and Cotton later joined Mark Boston in another group around ‘66 called Blues in a Bottle, correct?

The Exiles ( Jeff Cotton, Don Giesen, Larry Willy –bassist – and I,) had played a few shows locally, and also some stuff in LA and Ventura with a booking agent. It became more apparent as time went on that Larry was just not that interested in doing anything serious. So, Jeff, Don, and myself talked about me switching to vocals and harmonica, as the Beefheart band and several other groups had chosen that sort of “Stones” lineup. We agreed, and fired Larry – who as a no-show to rehearsal anyway. He was making great money working for his dad doing concrete work. We replaced Larry with Mark Boston, who we’d seen play at the Fairgrounds with a Band called “BC and the Cavemen” (ha ha), and acquired another guitarist named Jeff (Parker) from a local band called “The Jungle Jive Five” (LOL) – whose drummer was Randy Wimer ( later, a member of MU). We had our first rehearsal just before my HS graduation, and it was a rousing success. Mark was so good. What we missed mostly was Larry’s great singing – as he could sing like Paul McCartney and in the same range.

**Don Van Vliet (in shades) circa: 1965, or 1966.**

**Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band in 1965. Clockwise from left: Don Van Vliet, Vic Mortenson, Alex Snouffer, Doug Moon, Jerry Handley - picture by Robert Young.**

But now, we were doing mostly blues: a mixture of early Stones, the Animals, The Yardbirds, Them and several of the traditional blues artists like Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, and John Lee Hooker. We also covered some R&B like James Brown and Wilson Pickett – only with what I could describe as early heavy metal guitar. We actually opened for “Beefheart” ( everyone locally called them “Beefheart” because what teenager would sound out the entire name?) at a show at the local fairgrounds in the Fair Center Hall, which was “the big building.” This was a big honor, as our band had been together about three months and already we had a reputation as a great band. The interesting thing is this: we blew Beefheart off the stage that night. I could tell by the crowd response. The audience was disappointed, because Don and the boys came on, over-confident, and doing all original material. Don was reading his lyrics off paper held in his hand, and the audience was a bit bored. They were used to the heavier white blues, and this band and music seemed anemic.

**An early picture of the man who started Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band - Alex St. Clair Snouffer.**

Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band photographed in 1966 by Earl Leaf upstairs at the Whisky A Go Go in West Hollywood, California. Band line up (clockwise from left): Jerry Handley, Doug Moon, P.G. Blakely, Don Van Vliet, Alex St. Clair Snouffer.

**Early publicity for Captain Beefheart from June 1966 - cutting taken from the fanzine Steal Softly Thru Snow Issue 3.**

How did Zoot Horn Rollo aka Doug Moon come to join later on?

Doug Moon was a guitarist in the original Beefheart lineup. He played on “The A&M Sessions,” but was ejected from the group and replaced with Ry Cooder for “Safe as Milk.” Zoot Horn Rollo was the aka of Bill Harkleroad, who joined just prior to Trout Mask Replica.

**Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band circa early 1966. The line up in this picture, left to right: Doug Moon, Jerry Handley, Richard Hepner, Don Van Vliet, Alex Snouffer.**

Tell me about getting contacted by Beefheart to replace Paul Blakely on drums in late ‘66?

Paul “PG” Blakely wanted to leave the band after they decided to leave Leonard Grant and Associates as managers. He wasn’t happy with the change. Don Van Vliet called me up one day and said, “This is Captain Beefheart, do you know who this is?” Well, he had just told me who it was so I said, “Yeah.” He sort of stumbled around like he really lacked confidence with a kind of “I was wondering, well, I was thinking… I wanted to know if you’d like to blow drums with us.” I said, well maybe…. Jeff Cotton had told me that PG had already contacted him about playing them playing together, and I thought “the band is breaking up!” So, I went to a Beefheart rehearsal and eventually joined.

Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band performing at the Fantasy Fair and Magic Mountain Festival, Mount Tamalpais, Marin County, California on Sunday 11th June 1967. Picture provided by Ron Sanchez, originally taken by his brother Vince.

What were those early days in the Magic Band like before you guys recorded your debut masterpiece ‘Safe As Milk’?

I could divvy it up into two parts:

1. We rehearsed at Don’s mother’s house. He was 26 and still living with his mother, and his girlfriend lived there too. We tightened up some of the material – “Call on Me” comes to mind. That was October through November. During this period, my friend, John Parr took his own life with a sawed-off shotgun.

2. We moved to Laurel Canyon right after New Year’s in early ’67. This is when Ry Cooder replaced Doug Moon. Ry just thought he was going to be a session man, but Bob Krasnow and Don had other ideas. Ry actually arranged a lot of the material, wrote bass parts for sections – like the bass break in “Zig Zag Wanderer.”

**Alex St. Clair Snouffer, John French, Don Van Vliet and Jerry Handley photographed by Guy Webster in early 1967.**

Where was the band’s first show and what were your first impressions of Don and the other guys?

I thought right off that Don was pretty lazy and irresponsible, but had good creative ideas. He was very confrontational, and anytime I said something he didn’t like, he’d “put me in my place” so to speak. Him being 8 years my senior, I was intimidated by him, though I found him somewhat childish and completely disorganized. Alex seemed like a substance-abuser right off, but he had a lot more of the things that made a good leader. He was organized, didn’t like to waste time, and was pretty much closed-mouth except when something needed to get done. He was a business guy.

Doug was withdrawn, smoked a LOT of pot, and was often the target of Don’s rants. He also didn’t seem to know how to filter his comments at all, and though speaking things that were obvious, he had no idea how to make a point, and so was steamrolled a lot. He had a great knowledge of electronics and had the best equipment. Jerry was only three years my senior, and I got along with him and Alex the best. Jerry was already married, as was Alex, and they both had rented little houses and were on their own so to speak. Doug and Don still lived with their moms.

How did the deal with Buddah records come about and how did you guys initially meet Bob Krasnow of Kama Sutra Records?

Shortly after we moved to Laurel Canyon, Don asked me to go into Hollywood on night with him. He kept saying, “Where am I going?” and seemed to be just meandering around – as though being led by some invisible force. Finally, we pulled up to “Canter’s” – a Jewish Deli that was a hangout it Hollywood during that era. We weren’t in there five minutes when two guys approached Don and asked “Are you Captain Beefheart?” It turned out to be Krasnow and ( I think ) Richard Perry, but I’m not sure about the other guy. “We’ve been listening to ‘Diddy Wah Diddy’ and love your voice, and would love to sign you up.”

Taken in Cannes, France, January 1968 during their MIDEM music festival performance on the beach. Band line up, left to right: Jeff Cotton, Jerry Handley, Don Van Vliet, John French and Alex St. Clair.

Can you tell me about those recording sessions at the RCA studio in LA?

We first did demo sessions in the Original Sound studio, which was upstairs from Kama Sutra / Buddah offices. This was after rehearsing a few pieces with Ry. Before giving us advance, they wanted to hear us. Gary Marker engineered the session, and was supposed to be the producer of Safe as Milk, but Don agreed to let Richard Perry – fresh out of engineering school, with no experience – be the producer – figuratively stabbing Marker in the back. The first session was at Sunset Sound – one of the premier and sought-after studios in Hollywood. Richard Perry was confused by all those tracks, and we wound up doing 70+ takes of “Sho Nuff” – my hands were bleeding at the end.

Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band pictured in London, UK in January 1968 - original photo taken by Jim Nye. The band line-up, from left to right: Alex St. Clair Snouffer, Jerry Handley, Don Van Vliet, John French and Jeff Cotton.

Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band pictured circa late 1968 during the Trout Mask Replica album period in Woodland Hills, California. The band line-up in this photograph, from left: Rockette Morton, Drumbo, Zoot Horn Rollo, Antennae Jimmy Semens and Captain Beefheart - The Mascara Snake does not feature in this photo, which was taken by Ed Caraeff.

He wound up choosing number 40-something as “the one.” Bruce Botnick was engineering, and Don kept saying he “couldn’t hear his voice” – when doing the vocal track. Botnick had him turned up so loud, that when Don took off the phones, feedback nailed him in the left ear. Bruce should have turned DOWN the music instead of increasing the vocal volume. By the time Don recorded TMR, he refused to wear headphones and just listened to bleed-through from the control room window. We moved to RCA studios for the rest of the session. Marker claimed it was “the lamest studio in town” and thought Perry was out of his mind. It was a four-track studio, whereas SS was an eight track.

It really made for a lot of problems in sound because of “Ping Ponging” – pre-mixing three tracks to one to open up tracks for overdubs. The album “sound” suffered from a lack of fidelity because of this, and the MONO sound better than the stereo version because that’s what Perry really understood. Perry’s strong point was in helping Don arrange the lyrics to Abba Zaba. He was extremely patient with Don. He also was strong at arranging, and overdubbed the horn section on “I’m Glad” after spending an afternoon on a piano listening and writing out the parts. Really good vocalist.

**Cover of World Countdown in January 1968.**

Two very rare pictures of Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band onstage at the Amougies Festival in Belgium in October 1969. The photo on the right is of The Mascara Snake aka Victor Hayden. Both pictures were published in November 1969 as part of a special edition of Actuel magazine devoted to the festival.

What was the band’s approach to music?

Like a Garage Band. Everything was head arrangements. Ry filled in the cracks and had all the pieces ready to go from A-Z.

What did you guys want to express and get across?

Don and Herb Bermann ( who authored 2/3 of the lyrics) would know. Some of the members were as young as 20 years old when they recorded the album. I was 18, Ry was 19, Jerry was 21 or 2, Alex and Don were nearly the same age.

**Captain Beefheart and His Magic Band in July 1967.**

Do you recall the headspace you were in during that time during the ‘Summer Of Love’?

I was excited about the whole thing, until I visited Haight-Ashbury. It seemed like a chaotic mess, and I wasn’t at all impressed with all the unwed mothers and panhandlers.

How long did the record take to record from beginning to end?

2 ½ weeks, or so.

What is your personal favorite?

Abba Zaba – it had the most input from everyone. I loved the dual lead bridge, and the chorus, which was taken from a Ravi Shankar line that stood out to Don.

How did the name of the album come about?

Doug Moon was talking about pot one night and in its defense, said it was “Safe as Milk.”

After the record was released in June of ‘67 did you guys tour and play gigs in order to support the album?

Don’s “Anxiety Attacks” limited that. We did a few local show after losing Monterey Pop Festival.

What were those early shows?

The Cheetah – which was on the Santa Monica Pier. We played the Avalon Ballroom in San Francisco, and the Family Dog Show in Denver. Not much, really.