Paul Dean-Jerusalem Interview

Paul Dean was the bass player and a force behind one of the heaviest bands out of the UK in the early 70’s. Something that stands out the most in Dean’s story is his pure discipline as an artist. Jerusalem practiced more than any band and it showed. Their shows were full of energy and when it came down to record the lone LP, it would quickly go down in history as one of the greatest heavies of all time! Just a week, or so prior to finishing this interview, Dean gave me permission to use their song ‘Primitive Man’ as the new name for this project. I was completely stoked to have his blessing! Thus PRIMITIVE MAN SOUNDZ was reborn! I’m beyond honored to share this one. Jerusalem are an extremely impactful group and with this interview full of text and photos, you’ll find out exactly what made this group an important one. Enjoy!

When and where were you born? When did you first begin playing music? What initially drew you to play bass guitar? Was this something that was relevant around your home? What was growing up like for you?

I was born in Plymouth UK December 22nd 1951, but only spent 6 months there as my father was a pilot in the RAF, which meant we moved around over the years. He was a fighter pilot in World War II and then became one of the RAF test pilots for the new jet fighters. We lived in various places in the UK and even 3 years in South Africa, where he was the RAF’s pilot to the British High Commissioner. I went to about 5 different schools over the years. The longest period in one place was Salisbury, UK (twice), which also covered the later stages of my schooling and College.

None of my family played any instrument. At the age of 9 when at school in High Wycombe my music report card said ‘Probably tone deaf’! My grandparents bought me an acoustic guitar when I was about 12, but I found it a struggle to learn and gave up. Then nothing until I formed the beginnings of Jerusalem at St Probus School, Salisbury after seeing John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers with 2 other schoolmates, Chris ‘Kef’ Skelcher and Ray Sparrow who was eventually the founding member along with me of what became Jerusalem. None of us could play an instrument when we started. Ray took drums as he was a compulsive foot tapper, Chris took guitar because he found a cheap one and me bass because I found a homemade one that someone had advertised. I took vocals because we thought bass was easier to sing with.

We did holiday jobs to buy the rest of the gear we needed. We were all hooked on Blues after seeing John and attempted to cover old traditional Blues songs, but because we were also learning to play our instruments I decided it may be easier to write our own music rather than butcher the songs of others. So basically from then on, right through Jerusalem and Pussy all material was original. The first riff I ever wrote right at the very beginning of the school band was what later became Jerusalem’s ‘She Came Like A Bat From Hell’.


When did you first meet your bandmates? Were you in any outfits prior to Jerusalem? What were some of your early influences back in the day? What was the music scene like in your community and what clubs/venues would you go to see live bands play?

Ray and I were the founding and only permanent members of Jerusalem and Pussy. It was basically Ray, Chris and I until we left school. I then went to Salisbury College of Further Education, Ray joined his parents business and Chris went to the 6 th Form of Bishop Wordsworth Grammar school. Eventually Chris decided to leave because he wanted to go on to University, whilst Ray and I were taking the band more as a serious future prospect. When at College I met and brought in Bill Hinde as second guitarist. Then when Chris finally left the band I brought in another friend from College Bob Cooke as lead guitarist. At this time I wanted to stop singing and concentrate on writing, so also brought in Phil Goddard, a friend of Bill and Bob, on vocals.

This was really the first incarnation of Jerusalem. A question that comes up often is why the name Jerusalem. My favourite piece of music at school morning assembly was Jerusalem (Blake/Parry - Elgar), which was the only song that had any passion about it and strangely enough quite heavy in its own way. The actual word Jerusalem is known to most of the World, so very strong, which is what you need with a band name. On top of this Jerusalem was the centre of so much throughout History, the beginnings, ideas and melting pot of so many things encompassing passion and innovation, not just Religions. I can honestly say there were no religious connotations whatsoever in using the name. I have always thought that religions were invented by Man, for whatever his reasons, if you need religion great, if you don’t, also great. I saw the band as a vehicle for creating something raw and new that people would either love or hate, no middle ground. Bob painted the album cover of the Crusader, but it had nothing to do with the Crusades, more about an image that showed the passion of a belief, i.e. ours being the music and sound we created. This also re-enforced Jerusalem’s rule of no covers and obvious influences.

Over the years we have been referred to under the labels Heavy Metal, Doom, Stoner, Garage etc., but one has to remember these genres did not come into existence until a few years after Jerusalem. To give an example, a German journalist once said to me, how influenced were you by bands like Metallica and to my amusement I had to point out that we existed years before they appeared. I did the majority of the writing and can honestly say I never really had any influences when it came to Jerusalem’s music. Personally, I listened to music from virtually all genres for pleasure, obviously including Blues and Rock. My biggest ideal was to be different from what was going on at the time, but it had to be loud and exciting, especially live. Nothing like being pounded in the back from the vibrations of the guitar stacks and drums, a pure adrenalin rush that pushes you to the limits! It was a great time to be alive, in Salisbury the main venue was the Alexander Rooms and for large audiences the Odean and Gaumont Cinemas and later on the City Hall. The Alexander Rooms featured bands right across the spectrum of musical styles, from established to up and coming.

I remember seeing Jethro Tull, Ten Years After, Taste, Free, Fleetwood Mac, Led Zeppelin when they were relatively unknown and just playing Blues and of course Black Sabbath before their breakout. If not for the Alexander Rooms, I would never have seen John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, so would probably never have formed a band. These were the days when live music was everywhere, pubs, village halls, if it had space they would put on shows. There was also no music discrimination, people would listen to all kinds of music and audiences/bands from all genres would drink together. No jealousies, if a band made it the other bands were pleased for them. One week we could play in a pub to 30+ people the next week we could be playing at a Festival in Germany in front of 50,000. Great days!

Having seen John Mayall back in ‘66 with your future bandmates, can you tell me about the impressions he and the band left on you guys both as individuals as well as musicians? Can you tell me about your guys early stages of playing together, deciding on who played what, before taking it public?

As you probably know John Mayall was the godfather of UK Blues and the number of now famous rock musicians that he first nurtured in the Bluesbreakers is incredible, just have a look at his musical family tree, amazing. As I mentioned above we saw him at the beginning of our story, so it was Ray, Chris and I who were kicked into action be seeing John. Basically, none of us had ever seen or heard electric blues and were totally dumbstruck by the sound and elongated solos highlighting the incredible talent of the musicians. It is easy to see how this led to the birth of Rock, exemplified at an early stage by bands such as Cream, Jimi Hendrix and later Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Black Sabbath etc. I remember being at a club in London called the Speakeasy where many of the musicians playing in and around London used to hang out after their gigs, sometimes having a jam.

One night Chas Chandler (Animals) got up on the small stage and said he wanted to introduce a young American guitarist he had just started managing and asked who wanted to jam with him. I remember Keith Moon (Who) drummed, can’t remember the others. Anyway this guy ripped the place apart with unbelievable Blues guitar, obvious he was going to be huge. Yes, it was Jimi Hendrix. Generally, every band in those days ‘paid their dues’ playing the pub/club circuit, then the College/University circuit and finally the big venues and Festivals if they had the following. No such thing as an overnight success in Rock music, lots of struggle and hard work to succeed, plus a bit of luck.

Can you tell me about the first performances you had at the Salisbury College Of Further Education? What was it like playing in front of an audience that had never really heard the Blues before? Calling yourselves, The Blues Boom, you guys played 12 bar blues, and boogie tunes. What were those early days like before you started writing your own material? Did you guys ever make it into the studio to record any material?

This gig was when we were still at school and still learning how to play. We did an exchange trip with a German school from Dortmund. When they came to the UK someone heard we had a band and suggested we played for everyone. It was held at the College annex. We played our own 12 bar Blues/Boogies and a couple of experimental things, one of which was built around the riff that would eventually become Jerusalem’s ‘She Came Like A Bat From Hell’. To be honest we were all over the place and a lot of the lyrics I made up as we played, but as no one had ever heard music like this before they didn’t even notice mistakes and it all went down quite well considering. As I mentioned before, we didn’t do covers, everything was original from the beginning. It was far too early in our journey to even think about studio recording, but we did record on a cassette player sometimes to work out improvements.

As The Blues Boom evolved into the Rock Boom you guys began to take interest in acts such as Cream, DP, Hendrix, The Led. Can you tell where your head was at around this time compared to when you saw JM? How did you see music changing in this newer, heavier revolution and where did you see your band fitting in? When you guys weren’t performing you were watching bands do just the same. Who was inspiring you the most around this time and where would you go to see them play?

Interesting questions. Rock was a natural evolution from Blues for many bands at this time. Once the pathfinders like Cream hit the headlines the hunger for a heavier, more self indulgent path musically became the focus of many bands. For me it just became a natural progression and was in no way deliberate. I liked to keep a more raw feeling without any boundaries, whereas most other bands preferred a more structured feel that led in many different directions - Heavy Rock, Progressive Rock, Folk Rock etc. This is probably why at the time many people including journalists had difficulties describing us, as there wasn’t a musical box then that they could put us in. I think this is why these days we have been described as a band that was playing Metal, Doom, Stoner, Garage, NWOBHM, years before the genres came into existence. This no rules attitude Jerusalem had was the reason people either loved or hated us at the time, our audience were the ones who wanted to knock walls down and build something different. The people who hated us were the ones craving structure and safety. In a way, although we were Rock based, we were a kind of forerunner of the Punk revolution idea.

Once the basis of Jerusalem was formed, when not playing we spent most of the time practicing and putting new material together. The only bands we really saw were the ones on the same gig as us, which could be anyone and at some point we played with many of the known bands of that era. I personally believe the inspiration comes from the audience reaction, you get a feel for what works and what doesn’t, from them.

Can you tell me about the dynamics of potentially playing professional football vs deciding that music was your path? What was this decision like for you? Did this upset your family, or were they supportive of your vision? Once everyone began to graduate school the group fell to the wayside for some, but you kept it going. Can you tell me where you were at this time? How did you guys initially meet Paul Goddard, who replaced you as the singer?

Generally I was pretty good at most sports at school, Captain of football, Vice Captain cricket, tennis, athletics. I eventually had football trials with Southampton, Bournemouth and Plymouth which coincided with Jerusalem taking off professionally. I really enjoyed both football and music, but football is a bit of a gamble and a very short lifespan, whereas music could be for life. When at College I had no idea what I wanted to do as a career, so luckily I had these 2 alternatives, which didn’t involve any academic qualifications and I must admit my work at College did suffer from the amount of time needed for the band.

Luckily my family were very supportive in everything I did as long as I was focused, believed in it and worked hard. In fact all the parents were very supportive. Professional music is all about self belief, dedication and bloody hard work, believe it or not. By this time Ray and I were 100% in going for it seriously. We made this quite clear to the others and it resulted in Phil leaving because he wanted to go to Polytechnic, so this is when we held auditions in London to find a new singer, which is where we found Lyndon. To be honest it worked out well as the direction I wanted the band to take needed a more aggressive voice than Phil’s, but don’t get me wrong, Phil’s voice was very good, but probably more suited to Progressive Rock, which he really liked.

Thus the 5 piece was born! The band was kicked into overdrive playing more serious shows in more serious locations, such as pubs, halls, and clubs. What Your writing style changed around this time, can you tell me about that? I imagine you had influences outside of music. What else were you listening to, reading, watching, etc. that you wanted to bring into the band?

Once Ian Gillan became involved as our Manager and Producer everything took off. There was no actual change in the writing style, as all the songs for the album and up to 2 hour live sets were already written. We just spent all spare time rehearsing and refining what we already had. Once you reach this level it’s surprising what little time you have to spare for other things with all the gigging and recovery (sleeping). As I mentioned before, outside influence was not a part of what Jerusalem was about and anything that may have come through was purely through coincidence or subliminal. This happens with all bands even the most successful. As an example, when Ian first became involved he brought Roger Glover to our derelict farm cottage where we rehearsed (Pig Mansion - became a song with Pussy) with his new Revox tape recorder. He recorded some of our songs including ones we would never finish.

One of my riffs from an idea song later appeared on a later Deep Purple album. As I said before, this happens to all bands and no hard feelings, it’s never deliberate. Roger had just bought his first secondhand car, a mini, which we spent most of the weekend pushing as had a dodgy battery. Ian had also just bought a secondhand Jaguar which was the basis for ‘Highway Star’. By the way, Deep Purple once used Pig Mansion to rehearse for a new British Tour starting in Southampton, which was close to Salisbury.Richie loved the place and got the roadies to build a massive bonfire the first night. The closest habitation was at least a mile away, Pig Mansion was in a river valley between hills. This is also where we found out how far sound travels. One hot summers day we set up outside and were shocked after an hour when some one from the other side of the hills drove up and asked us to turn it down.

The band was very disciplined, playing small shows here and there but mostly practicing to better the musicianship. Where did you see the band at this point in time? What was the overall vision that you were reaching for?

We probably practiced more than most, as I always believed once you got on stage it should all be about communicating with the audience, you should know your songs well enough not to have to think about what you’re doing other than solo breaks etc. Music is supposed to be entertainment whatever the genre. Still amazed these days how many bands still ignore their audiences to an extent, if you don’t want to involve your audience you may as well play to yourself! Jerusalem was all about getting the audience involved in the music and led to many impromptu stage antics, especially between Lyndon and I.

Before we dissect the tracks that are featured on the LP, can you tell me about Primitive Man? I understand this is your favorite number off the album as well? When I first heard this song it completely rocked my head! Its so heavy both sonically and lyrically. Can you tell me what inspired you to write ‘She came like a bat from hell’? This being one of the first original riffs you wrote, can you tell me about your process as both a songwriter and musician?

Yes, Primitive Man is still my favorite. Maybe 50 years too early. Basically, I was really pissed at the time about how much damage Man was doing to the Planet and themselves, the riff was as heavy as I could make it, it was a riff of anger. Also, such a huge power buzz when on stage getting slammed in the back by all the guitars playing the same riff. I won’t bother going through all the other songs, as I find that listeners often find their own interpretations and connections in songs, which can be very different from the writers. I have always enjoyed hearing others peoples ideas on what they think my songs are about. That’s one of the great catalysts of music, whereby listeners become involved in a song personally for their own reasons. Most riff based songs I wrote using the bass, I also used an acoustic for building other songs and fills, breaks, melodies etc. Lyrics were always the last thing.

Your eldest sister, Zoe, helped you guys get your foot in the door by connecting you to Micky Dallon of PYE Studios. How did she get involved in the industry by the way? Can you tell me what your first impressions of Dallon were like? How did the band do recording their first demos? Was this the first time you had ever been in a studio before? What was the energy, and chemistry of the band like?

This was when Phil was our singer. We did a version of Primitive Man and Beyond the Grave which Rockadrome added as extras on the remastered Jerusalem release. Zoe went to London at 18 and also loved music having a substantial collection of records. She worked at Pye Records for a while where she met Micky (A&R Producer), then she worked for the Pirate radio stations Caroline and London and eventually an interviewer for the first live TV entertainment show A Whole Scene Going. During this period she got to know many of the 60’s bands, singers, actors, comedians, DJ’s etc. This is also when she first met Ian who was then with Episode Six. When she came home on a visit she heard us and was so surprised and impressed she decided to see if she could help, which resulted in the Pye session. Although nothing happened at the time it gave us great recording experience for the future and taught us the reality of the difference of attitude needed between recording and live. Micky’s impression was that we definitely had something and it just needed honing a bit. Funnily enough, there was another young band recording there at the same time. The sons of USAF personnel, who later became known as America.

I‘m sure you were very proud of your big sister for not only helping you guys make the connection with DP’s Ian Gillian, but also being such a prominent figure in her career! What were your first impressions of Ian when you met him? He came to your house, correct? What a trip! Can you tell me about the gig with Uriah Heep when Ian came to watch you guys?

It was a strange coincidence, Zoe realized Ian was now in Deep Purple, who had just broken through with Black Night. They were playing in Southampton, so she and Bob’s girlfriend went to see them and Zoe met up with Ian again. Anyway, she brought him home after the gig, I didn’t actually know who he was at first. The funniest part was when he walked through the door I was playing Black Sabbath’s first album and he asked me who it was, he liked it, little knowing he would join them one day. Ian was a great down to earth guy and we were very close for a few years, more like brothers, We used to do a lot together, motorbike scrambling, horse riding, football, golf, darts, boats, cards/games, drinking! We even both played for the local Police football team, which was also our local bar.

Ian and Zoe then got together and were regular visitors, so Ian became very aware of the band. He finally saw us at Salisbury College when we shared the bill with Uriah Heep, their bass player then came from Andover, which was very close to Salisbury. Gerry Bron was also there to sign them up to Bronze and Ian was so impressed with us, he decided he wanted to manage us. I had already been talking to Phillips Records and Zoe to John Coletta (one of DP’s managers) separately from Ian, but Ian said he would prefer to manage us independently.

Can you tell me your thoughts on what you think may have happened to the tapes from the Pig Mansion session(s), a farm cottage near Wilton?

As I explained above, Roger had just bought the 2/4 track Revox, so it was all very new to him. I presume they were eventually recorded over as they were not actually meant for Demos, just experimenting. The interesting fact is that we can say we were the first band Roger ever recorded. I’m sure you are well aware Roger eventually became a top independent Producer with a lot of success, whilst still being to the fore of Production with Ian Paice on DP’s recordings.

With Ian of Deep Purple and your eldest sister Zoe managing the band, you guys began your search for a new singer to replace Phil. Can you tell me about those auditions?Was there anyone from bands you may have known, or heard of at that time? Can you tell me about the two singers it ended up coming down to?

When Phil left we advertised in the NME for a new singer and had a response from about 40. We set up for auditions in London in a Church Hall. Ian and Zoe were away at the time with DP. Most of the singers arrived and as we were about to set up, the authorities of the Hall said they didn’t realize it was for a Rock Band and refused to let us continue. Eventually Bill’s brother who had a basement apartment in London agreed to let us do the auditions there. Unfortunately, because of the chaos only 12 managed to make it to the apartment. Anyway, we went through the remaining singers and it was down to a choice between 2. Lyndon was one and the other guy I can’t remember his name. The other guy had an incredible voice, but Ray and I thought it wouldn’t fit with what we were trying to create, whereas Lyndon was an out and out showman with a slightly rough voice.

He had no musical background other than what he had done musically at Drama College. Bill and Bob disagreed, but Ray and I overruled them, so we went with Lyndon. Lyndon then moved down to Salisbury and stayed with Ray. During this move I was rushed into hospital with appendicitis, but the band started going through our songs with him. Ian had already decided to do an album as soon as possible after we found a singer. We were slightly short of songs for the album, so on my recovery I got together with Lyndon. He didn’t play an instrument, but had loads and loads of lyrics. I went through them to find anything suitable and chose Midnight Steamer, When The Wolf Sits and Hooded Eagle. I then sorted out the music and structure for them. Soon after we went into the studio to record the album, Lyndon had some problems with some of our songs and the keys, but with a bit of coaching from Ian and I everything turned out fine.

With Lynden being more of a writer than a musician, can you tell me what the chemistry was like when you guys began constructing music together? You wrote Hooded Eagle, When The Wolf Sits, and Midnight Steamer together, correct? What was the process like for those tunes? What connected you guys the most, because it seemed like the relationship started off in this vulnerable way? Was he the missing puzzle piece you guys were looking for this whole time?

Some of this in previous question/answer. Yes, Lyndon was exactly what I was looking for as far as the sound of the Jerusalem songs, rough, raw and because he was a virgin lead vocalist, had not been influenced by what vocalists were generally supposed to do or how to act. Fitted well with the no rules and boundaries needed for the sound I wanted for the songs. He was also great on stage as he had no inhibitions, which was probably because of his time at Drama College. In day to day life he was a very nice guy with a good sense of humor, but once he had the music hat on there were occasional ego problems, which Ian and I had to control. For example, Ray, Lyndon and I were doing an interview with Beat Instrumental when Lyndon went off on one of his self rambles, basically saying that Jerusalem was a vehicle for his songs. Ian actually stopped the interview and with the agreement of the Interviewer we started again.

Lyndon’s actual writing contribution to the album were the lyrics for 3 songs. Towards the end of Jerusalem, it became a bigger problem to control him, but by then Ian, Ray and I thought the band, as it was, had reached its natural conclusion, plus Bill was having pressure from his parents and he, Bob and Lyndon were pushing to go in a more Progressive Rock direction, which is not what Jerusalem was about. Rather than replace members, Ray and I decided with the agreement of Ian and our A&R Manager at Deram to fold Jerusalem as we had achieved what we wanted with the album and to form a new 3 piece band along with Bob (later replaced by Brian Goff) called Pussy.

We were adamant that we would not keep the name Jerusalem, as that would have destroyed and insulted what Jerusalem had created for a brief moment in time. This is also why I was really pissed off with Lyndon within the last few years when he started releasing albums under the name Jerusalem. Even Bob who helped him for a while with these albums disagreed with him using the name, especially as the songs and sound were nothing like Jerusalem. I felt it was just a case of him trying to get sales by jumping on the coattails of the remastered reissues of Jerusalem that our official Record Company (Rockadrome) released and continue to release over the last 12 years. Anyway, enough said.

Was it pretty surreal that your sister married a member of Deep Purple, a group that inspired you guys in the years prior as well as managed the band? Can you tell me about the experience of recording the record at the legendary Kingsway studio? How long did the sessions take? Between EMI and Deram, what was going on in your head at this point because it seems that everything is coming together, everyones behind the band, and you guys are moving forward in a steady stead. Was there anything you were having troubles adjusting to, or was the progression at a natural pace?

They never actually married, but were together for 13 years. I actually didn’t know who Ian or Deep Purple were when he walked through the door that night, it was just at their breakthrough moment. You have to remember that our album was within a year or so of their success and most of our songs were already written, so inspired only in the sense that we were being managed by one of the new breed of top Rock vocalists who ended up as one of the best in the World. I had already met a number of famous people, so not dazzled by Ian and in those days most of the successful artists were just down to earth guys who had paid there dues, fully earning their success. The Superstar egos came a few years later when Record Companies started being run by Accountants and Lawyers looking for the quick buck manufactured artists who were short lived PR run overnight successes. In our day, most Companies A&R departments were run by ex- musicians or people who had music in there veins, which gave them vision and they also didn’t expect immediate results. I think if these guys hadn’t been there at that time in the 60’s & 70’s, there would have been no Cream, Hendrix or even Stones and Beatles.

The album was recorded at the famous De Lane Lea Studio in Kingsway (later bought by Ian and called Kingsway Recorders) over a period of 2 weeks and we all camped at Ian and Zoe’s house in Purley-on-Thames. We drove back and forth to London everyday and the sessions ran from mid afternoon to the early hours of the morning. The reason most artists record over these kind of hours is that they are basically nocturnal creatures because of gigging etc. Lyndon was the only one who hadn’t been in a Studio before, so found it quite daunting at first. It was a fantastic 2 weeks, great camaraderie, excitement, inspiration and fun. Ian and Louie Austin the Engineer made it so relaxed and enjoyable. We learnt so much about the difference between recording and playing live.

Yes, it was a toss up between Nick Mobbs at EMI (Vertigo) and Sam Hamilton at Decca (Deram). Both great guys and a very difficult decision for Ian. Nick was behind many top signings over the years eventually becoming head of A&R EMI e.g. Sex Pistols, Kate Bush. Sam eventually moved to Australia. As a band we were amazed to have 2 major labels after us. By the way, our audition gig for them was at the Red Lion pub Leytonstone. We were supporting Status Quo who were at the beginning of their comeback as a Boogie band rather than Pop.

To be honest everything happened so fast, record deal, album, signing with NEMS for gigs, doing huge Festivals in Germany & Austria, that we didn’t have time to adjust, it was a case of being dropped into the deep end and swimming for our lives, amazing adrenaline rush! Great days!

Can you tell me about recording the songs, and the process for each of the tracks? Compared to the demos recorded prior to meeting Ian and what was cut in the studio with him, what about them changed if anything at all?

We had spent a lot of time practicing the tracks so that we didn’t have to think about them technically during the recording and only focus on producing feel and excitement, as though we were playing live. I’ve always told artists when Producing them that you should know the basic songs upside down and back to front when you get in a Studio. As you may know, the first instruments to record are the foundation instruments drums and bass. If you know the songs well enough, theoretically you should be able to play the whole song without any other instruments or vocals. Generally, when recording bass and drums the other rhythm instruments play along with you, but are not recorded, just so you can get some feel into what your playing. Next to record are the rhythm instruments. Then the lead vocals followed by guitar solos. The final recording is for backing vocals if you have them and what The Troggs referred to as ‘fairy dust’ i.e., any extra instruments or effects like phasing etc. This is how we did the recordings. The final task is the mixing which generally takes longer than all the recording and is extremely important. A good mix can make average songs sound good, but a bad mix can make the best music in the World sound bad.

Can you tell me about the gig and what that was like to play with Status Quo at the famous Red Lion, the night the band was also signed to Deram? What were your first impressions of Sam Hamilton when you first met him? You guys must have been on cloud 9! You also inherited DP’s first PA system and Marshall stacks, but unfortunately were stolen from Pig Mansion. Was this a major setback for the band?

It was quite funny when Quo arrived, as we had already set up our brand new purple colored Marshal stacks, new drum kit and DP’s original PA system. At first they took the piss a bit about our flash gear, as theirs was well used and a bit battered. Soon after Ian walked through the door and of course everything changed because they were all mates from the Pop days of Quo and Ian’s Episode Six. After the gig we all mixed together and had a few beers. Sam was a great guy and already had a vision for us if we signed. Very friendly and professional, always looked after us very well. Virtually became a member of the band, which is what you need from an A&R Manager. Unfortunately for us, Sam emigrated to Australia, just before the Pussy single, Feline Woman was released. To lose your personal A&R guy is never good as the person who takes over already has his own stable of artists, so you tend to go to the back of his queue. I think the guy who took us over was looking after Thin Lizzy who had signed around the same time as us. It was not long after this that Ian decided to cancel the contract with Deram and look elsewhere. The robbery at Pig Mansion was actually a couple of years later, so had no effect.

Having shared the stage with bands such as Curved Air, DP, Black Sabbath, Fleetwood Mac, Juicy Lucy, etc. What are some of your most memories of performing with your bandmates? And what shows stand out to you the most? You guys made a huge impact on the Festival in Vienna when the audience seemed to be leaving until they heard your number, ‘Frustration’. What was this experience like to see tons of people stampeding back to see you guys perform?

It was amazing to share the stage with so many great bands of the time, some of whom were also in their formative stages. The main thing I remember was that in those days there was such great camaraderie whatever level the bands were at. Everyone helped and supported everyone if needed. No them and us attitude. We all ate and drank together if in the same place. After gigs in the UK, Motorway Service Stations were places you would often run into other bands you knew, on their way home or on the way to the next days venue. There were crazy instants with all bands, as being on the road was incredibly tiring and boring, so natural to let off steam in all kinds of ways. Some took it to extreme at times, but generally harmless. I remember once we were on the way to a gig at Liverpool or Manchester University and drove 25 miles past the City on the Motorway because of spontaneous cake fight between us all inside the van, nearly late for the gig. Constant internal wind ups. On the way to Wales we told Bob he should have brought his passport and he would have to hitch back to Salisbury to collect it. Told him the truth at the Severn Bridge to relieve his panic.

The biggest memories were probably the huge Festivals. To be on stage in front of tens of thousands of people is totally amazing, especially when they appreciate what you’re doing. Vienna was our initiation on this level. We were using DP’s equipment and their road manager at the time Ian ‘Bige’ Hansford was mixing for us. Being the only unknown band, when we got on stage a lot of people were leaving to get drinks or use the toilets, but when we started playing they all stopped and rushed back. Any nerves we had went straight out the window as that visual buzz just took us to as you say ‘Cloud 9’. Afterwards Ian Hansford said he had never seen such a physical reaction from an audience before of people leaving and then turning on their heels to rush back.

The next day we were to be first on at the Speyer, Frankfurt Festival, so they put us on the overnight Vienna - Frankfurt train. We actually had people coming up to us on the train who had been at the Festival to say how much they enjoyed Jerusalem. The Frankfurt Festival was interesting for 2 reasons. The equipment of all the bands at Vienna were being driven to Frankfurt in the trucks overnight, but when we arrived at the Festival none of the trucks had arrived so the Promoter wasn’t sure what to do, as it was meant to start at 12 noon.

We had our guitars with us and Ray had his snare. Rory Gallagher had also arrived and managed to scrounge a Vox AC30 from a local German band and asked if he could also borrow what we had brought with us. Thus being a 3 piece band he was able to kick of the Festival instead of us, as we needed enough equipment for a 5 piece. The playing order became total chaos as the trucks started arriving bit by bit, but not in the order the bands were supposed to play. We ended up playing about 12 midnight in the end, with others still to go on after us. Great audience and very patient. We also made news because our set finished earlier than expected. We were on probably the 5th song when we all noticed Lyndon was singing the wrong lyrics and doing a kind of idiot dance.

Turned out there was a problem with his mic and he was actually getting a hefty electric shock. He finally collapsed on stage, but was ok soon after we came off. Because of the chaos that day there was a lot of humor on stage. I remember vividly Fairport Convention, the Folk Rock band, ending their set by smashing some of their instruments like Ritchie Blackmore did. They knew DP were following them, so spontaneously decided to take the piss as they knew everyone was waiting for DP. Very funny and even Ritchie thought it was a good crack.

The band saw a lot of positive feedback when an Austrian TV taped the show thus allowing a wider audience to see you guys on a whole other level! What was it like having people come up to you and say they saw you play and loved it? Can you tell me about the Frankfurt Festival and why ended so suddenly!? With Deram wanting a single, you guys came up with ‘Kamikaze Moth’ in just an hour, a quick practice afterwards and then off to the studio the following day. Can you tell me about that session? Was this the last time the band would be in the studio together? What led to the band’s split and later reforming as Pussy?

It was actually the main Austrian News channel and for some reason when covering the Festival they decided to use part of our set. This channel was also available in Germany, so good coverage. Bit of a pleasant shock strangers approaching us at the Festival, on the train and even when we got to Frankfurt as some had seen the Austrian news which other stations had picked up on. I also did a number of interviews backstage at Speyer because of this. The reason for our short set I have already covered. The Promoter of Vienna/Frankfurt was so pleased with us he paid us some extra and put us on the same flight back to the UK with DP rather than the Charter flight.

When Ian and Zoe were away with DP, I managed the band. We had done an edit of the album Frustration song for a single, but I suddenly received a call from Sam saying they had changed their mind and wanted single that was not on the album, within three days if possible, as he had already booked a session at Decca’s Studio. I came up with a new riff and chord structure the next day and then dragged Lyndon over to my mothers house, so we could sort out some lyrics. I then worked out how the vocal melody and choruses should go. Thus Kamikaze Moth was born.

The next day the band started practicing it so we knew it back to front before recording and the following day travelled up to Decca Studios, London to record it. It was the first time I had been involved in Producing, but Decca’s house engineer was very easy to work with and we were all very pleased with the result. Heavy Rock was something BBC radio avoided if they could, but Alan Freeman who had the No.1 show Pick of the Pops on a Sunday played it as his new pick of the week. Kid Jenson at the famous Radio Luxembourg, which was very popular in the UK and Europe, also played it a lot. His show was the biggest Rock influenced radio show in the whole of Europe.

I’ve never thought about it before, but yes the last time Jerusalem were together in the Studio was Kamikaze Moth. The break up of Jerusalem I have already covered in a previous question. Pussy was a new 3 piece band formed out of Jerusalem, Ray, Bob and I. Although I was still doing most of the writing I did want a slight change of direction with the new band as I was now doing lead vocals. The riffs were still there, but overall the sound was more of a good time Rock band and not so serious as Jerusalem. Still no rules and moving boundaries, maybe at times even taking the piss of the way the music industry was going. Making uncool, cool, as they say.

Our first release was Feline Woman on Deram which actually got some good reviews in the music press but suffered from lack of airplay as the BBC refused to play it because of the name. Alan Freeman did go against the BBC policy and played it, they couldn’t stop him, as his was the biggest radio music show they had. On top of this Sam left Deram and the new A&R guy was more interested in the bands he had already signed. This is when Ian cancelled the Deram contract. We then started gigging and recording an album, whilst looking for a new Record deal. was not easy as it coincided with the Punk explosion, so the companies were more focused on signing Punk bands and little else.

What did you want to achieve with Pussy that differed from Jerusalem? Ian was still working with you guys at this point, correct? Can you tell me about the single ’Feline Woman’? The BBC didn’t seem to be fans of the tune banning radio plans until Alan Freeman decided to take matters into his own hands. What was the concept or vision going into this group? With the  recession, the record had to be shelved for over 30 years! What did you end up doing after this? How did the deal with Rockadrome come about?

Some of this I have already answered. The main difference between Jerusalem and Pussy was the sound. The goal was the same, to come up with something different that would hopefully make a footprint in music. It was around this time I decided with Ian’s agreement to take a rest. Ian continued to support Ray and Bob for a while with a 5 piece outfit they formed, but it never really took off in any way. I did some solo stuff which Ian produced and I did some producing for bands I found for Ian’s Production Company. At the same time I also managed Ian’s Motorcycle Company ‘Mantis’, which was to produce a new British motorbike, plus we had a racing team which I also looked after. Ian and Zoe then moved to Paris and Ian came up with the idea of trying to get a deal for the Pussy album in France and maybe reform the band.

Ray and I stayed with Ian and Zoe a few times and we all started doing the rounds of Record Companies. The Ariola label (major German record company) in France said yes, we want Pussy. Ray and I then went back to the UK to approach Bob about reforming, but after a long discussion it was obvious Bob wasn’t on the same page as us, so we needed to find a new guitarist. Ian suggested a young American guitarist I also knew called Brian Goff (his mentor was Ritchie Blackmore). Brian’s father was the Producer of the Charlie’s Angels and Mannix TV series by the way. Anyway, we all hit it off well and I actually thought Brian’s Gibson sound fitted Pussy better than Bob’s Strat sound. We decided Brian should re-record all the guitar parts on the existing Pussy tracks and I wrote a few more songs. Then bang, the Recession happened and financially everyone went into lockdown, so the album never happened at that time.

Over the next 30 years, I got together with Ian’s sister Pauline on Ian’s suggestion and recorded an album with her, which was released in 1984 on Thunderbolt Records - Gillan/Dean ‘Rocks On’. I wrote the majority of the tracks. Then recorded a couple of traditional blues songs with musicians I knew The Glory Gang. This is when I damaged my vocal chords and stopped singing. Moved to Southern Africa (mainly Zimbabwe and a bit in Botswana, Namibia, South Africa) took up Golf and within 3 years qualified as a golf coach. Moved to Guyana, South America where I was the golf pro at Lusignan Golf Course. Moved to Ireland and played on the European Seniors Challenge Tour and third level European PGA Tour.

Whilst in Ireland appeared in a few movies as a special extra in ‘Veronica Gueron’, ‘Count of Monte Christo’ and was the double for Gerry Butler in ‘Reign of Fire’. Then to the Philippines, initially as a managing partner at a Resort/Golf Course. Really liked S.E.Asia so stayed up until now. Throughout these travels I always tried to help local artists wherever I was and in the Philippines Produced a number of Filipino bands in the studio, which have been released in the Philippines.

The Rockadrome connection was very strange. A couple of years after I arrived in the Philippines I received an email from a Dennis Bergeron in San Antonio, Texas asking if I knew that Jerusalem had now become a cult band Worldwide and would I be interested in remastering and re-releasing the Jerusalem album. I had been out of touch with the general music scene for a number of years, so was quite shocked. Anyway, I was very excited and we did the deal, as I had all the original masters and permissions signed over to me years before. The rest is history, Rockadrome is now the official Record Company for Jerusalem and the remastered Jerusalem has been re-released Worldwide on CD, Vinyl and downloads, plus merchandise, t-shirts, badges etc. More recently Rockadrome decided they also wanted to release and remaster the Pussy album ‘Invasion’ for the first time ever, so that has now happened, also on CD, Vinyl and downloads. Rockadrome are incredibly supportive and professional and have come up with some great ideas over recent years. 2022 will be the 50th Anniversary of the Jerusalem album, so I’m sure there will be something special released next year. Secret!

What have you been into during these strange pandemic times? Are you working on any new music?

No, maybe in the future, never say never. I just try and help other artists when possible, either as a Producer or with ideas/advice. I know how difficult the music business is, I was fortunate the way things happened for me, so like to try to put something back in if I can.

With great chemistry, love, and respect for everyone in the band it made for some epic, and wonderful memories. When you reflect back on your time with Jerusalem what do you take with you the most?

That in a brief moment in time nearly 50 years ago, Jerusalem created something that is still going strong with the generations that have come since. Very proud that the album has become legendary for a number of reasons and that the legacy continues.

Is there anything else you would like to further share with the readers?

Music is an incredible force in the World with a power that cannot be suppressed by anyone or any authority. It is people driven, so can influence change in Politics, Environment, Freedom, Democracy, Human Rights, Race, Gender etc., whatever is wrong with this World, music can be the catalyst for change even in the most repressive regimes. It’s unstoppable and has already changed the World considerably over the last 60 years. A never ending revolution led by the artists and followers. To audiences, always remember it takes a lot of nerve, dedication, creativity and hard work to stand on stage and perform. Even if you don’t like a performer, put your hands together, it could be you up there. To artists, your audience is the most important aspect of music, communicate with them, if not, you may as well be at home playing to yourself. Strive to be different, take chances, safety is the opposite of creativity. Being too influenced by your influences will get you no where. To all, take care, make the World a better place and thank you for all your support, you made it all very worthwhile.

OFFICIAL JERUSALEM, PUSSY WEBSITE:

https://jerusalembanduk.wixsite.com/mysite

JERUSALEM, PUSSY, GILLAN DEAN, GLORY GANG, PAUL DEAN

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Dakota Brown